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...our agents wrote some good Latin, did not they lovely "autobiography" )

History of med Roman families, often claiming ancient origin like we ), is interesting subject and many deatils fit in one way or another all up to XIX c and creation of (quasi)) united Italy, i mean in relation to us and some guesses in lack of all papers... it is even not "surprise" that some families active in XIX c that (only historically) in some (to say so) "anti-Savoyan" (and i talked how all Italian figures of unification had Serbs in their ideas or mentions) were also often families some of our powerful rulers maybe "did not support" in meds, but minor thing ) ...but maybe even later and even till today we have some "semi-sacred" (too huge word but sympathy maybe) among some Roman families. It is paradox and "disbelief" for many but in historical prospective only, the ones who know more and were better connected are Serbs in this region, so more able to even theoretically speak about Roman families and papal circles ) ...French period of papacy wasn't something divided from it and as said it even started as era in times when figures like Philip (and Miluten)) decided to just because of Italian families struggles remove the office etc etc. If we theoretically accept that Colonnas (and others of that side) were some presumed "our side" it is important to note that Philip IV was tutored by Colonnaand things like that...

so what i wanted to say in that sense..... "papa Jacques" was pressumed (it is all complicated) to be closer to maybe some "Orsini faction" which maybe "wasn't our side"as well as Caetani etc, just unlike Philip and Colonnas that gave us "green light" etc... so in some sense it also fits in relation to Miluten, if we look it that way, but "extreme hostility" never happened. Lovely... and i also only now or of recent understand doctor Eco completely (and our late doctorate as well, btw) as he did not blame "all" but exactly pope Jacques and that faction, which wasn't our presumably etc. So spot on in that sense, but compared to Boniface, Jacques was "little baby" and not so aggressive etc. Theories, pure facts, our ties and all mixed for some explain...

anyway, here's photo of "papa Jacques", sister As seen he salutes in "Serb" three finger salute in a way like it symblises many things but also as usual finger stretch to make things in the air... our is, as well as their - might be "shock to many Serbs" - also based on some ancient Roman gestures. Isn't it cool and aren't we cool tribe... lovely all, hope you like details and openmindendly got some facts with lots of humor... generally it is not about religion, but our ancient origins and many imitations in Serbs ; ... or maybe better said, others imitations of us as our rulers said long ago "we like all that and respect but will not convert as still more into Jupiter and Junona story" and we are proud of what we are etc....i think you all love it again, but always give me a sign and what you can add...

must say & I go that indeed it looks like some "Mafia struggles" (and no coincidence it culminated at Sicily, just joking sis) and even Roman family names sound so bombastic or "strong" like from such drama ...but again to say Colonna's and Philip IV are something totally else, sadly even many "historians" totally wrongly interpreted it all and what was Philip doing there and whole move, so I feel urge to support that side or look at history.... and not at all because it was our, nor any interest or subjective reasons, but simply i think it was truth.... and, without any joke, to say why i use words like "you being behind" because Philip III, not to be mixed with "greater" son, just followed us in actions in sense - "holy king" already finished with one of the "guilty ones" and now they must follow... however when we found Michael's autobiography all things were solved and Philips decided to finish "Aragonese crusade" as case is closed ...poor Michael in some way, but he enjoyed all privileges in detention, including writting and reading ) .....most seriously, i think - comical parts aside - that there is conture of truth in there and trio "Colonnas-Philips-Miulten&Draguten" (before second brother "talked too Orsini like") is behind all events in the same way as Michael was behind previous, as proven ) ...call your presidents, Macron, signor Mattorella (great signor but funny) and king Felipe and Greek democracy ) etc. - it is solved. I think if we combine both that actions and Miluten's against Byzant we get more logical and truthful continental history as they were part of same thing & to me proof that Miluten was "100%" Capet etc etc. and even influenced to extent "younger relatives". It is alright to take it as is said... so i want to underline all that and chronology.

another lovely moment (unrelated to all) is that Jacques aka John 22 wanted to move office to Bologna, but never happened and there was riot later etc. - Bologna which was known for Venetians as "especially tough stronghold" of Miluten's influence, but he was dead by then etc... it is all interconnected... talked a lot, really a lot to make it clearer, if you have interest in subjects or even ever heard a story, consider.... Vinegia is cutest in whole story, when we love and divinfy their girls then it is OK but when French girl is around it is instantly "7/8 of their silver value" lovely, truly lovely story wothout grain of sarcasm and am "proud of our role" and that we had it as big at all, and closest to true E-history of the time... don't mind humor, personally think i couldn't make any better subject from us for content etc. be greeted

also this, and i think maybe I'm rounding it nicely...

previous lines is about them towards us, but just shortly "we towards them" to say something i touched and think what is used till today to make some "anti Nemanide paranoia in some catholic countries" - doubt that both Miluten and Dushan ever converted catholics, surely not "en masse" and that just some "mind games" were played with Hungarian (i.e. French then) kings or "tit for tat" ; ...strongly believe that "Latin heresy" (and similar) line was added later or just added in additions to "codex" without them really doing much as to "scare" Louis above all or frustrate him etc. Resons are simple (to conclude that we never had option to convert catholics) becuase if both Miluten and Dushan ever did that in some really extent - there would be open war, loss of certainly Dalmatia we controlled and united action against Rascia ...so it is lie or myth written till todaythat could have never happened, even Pierre Thomas came and he would never come in other case and fantasized line knowing that it is not true naming "provocative or iritating actions bu HIM" etc etc. so, by me - "Latin heresy" and drastic measures are lie i.e. something from Byzant law that was not here etc..... what IS funny, btw, is that Dushan wanted to acuse Mt Athos main prior, and probably Constant patriarch if he could get him, for "heresy"

also to add, see how some lines exist calling some intents "intent to convert Serbs i.e. legates came to convert etc" it is also untrue in meaning as offer was (to Dushan) so called "union" not "conversion"... "uniatism" is demand "bishop of Rome" to be recognized as "primus inter pares or main one" while our Kesarian church would remain quasi intact ; etc etc. of course we couldn't accept minor detail also wrongly used in some books... not so important.

so in the end what was some idea of esp. Dushan, similar to Philip IV - rulers to via own administrators hold the church "under the ruler primacy" and as French historians said (but also to our rulers) some "state religion" or some "ancient based modification of christianity" (as Dushan showed) etc etc. Now line of Palman, leader of "ancient origin" Germanic guard or unit (if quasi true, but probably yes) to Dushan is much, much clearer "you can control our bodies (as soldiers) but you can't control our souls" i.e. probably everyone noticed that Dushan is moving in some direction of self "pontifex-ation maximus-ation" or similar ....in some wider sense it is also noticeable that peak rulers (similar to some German rulers, but French as well etc) often supported that "spiritual or basic franciscanism" when they were in conflict with main line papacy (which changed and our was mainly "Colonnoists" as confirmed that he wanted to marry wife from "Louis Bavarian and Fridrih camp"), why Sean Connery was "side" of our sneaky rulers which all used inter-church divides for own goals - aimed decreasing role of powerful church figures and in basics - some "ghibelinesm" as i've said long ago and why close coop with esp. Ragusan Franciscans in Jerusalem and why they loved him for centuries later etc etc etc..... Dante (himself Guelph but complex person) "sniffed" Miluten instantly lovely, but we get in peace with Florence ; by same sculptor making Dante and our Marcus Aurelius here. etc. now you hopefully get it that ir wasn't at all about "catholic vs. orthodox" clash in basics but much more complex thing in our case.... think i'm ended but now you )

(Palman is used more as nice cinematic figure, while i'm basically Dandolist, btw))

interesting is - the end - that no historians, theologist, our epics etc. (at least not known to me and i never seen it personally in any source) but exactly Gabriele (D'Annunzio not Principe)) in his by blood written notes along his poem used line "son of Christ" while talking about Dushan. I mean he probably did not fantasize it, he knew something and why I sometimes say that Italians had some tiny details or knowledge maybe hidden or very, vary rare to others... i mean doubt that Gabriele loved man that much to describe him that way but is interesting for our topic why and how he used that line etc. He also intentionally knew and used names of Belgrade hills in a way like it is Rome etc. (Latin lines etc) Also, some later Italian historians - to say also this knew about "white angel" in centuries while it was repainted and similar details I simply can't remember now...

maybe some Italian traditions (very cute if so) but for previous post and topic it was that description that matters...personally it was another WTF??!! moment when i seen first time that Gabriele wrote that so maybe they have original of the "code" very surprising again.... but generally i reject that Nemanides descend from Christ as some popular books in the west say ) while from Kesar very likely...... )) think it is worth saying for stories (but i wanted to focus on medieval themes Roman/Latin origin is just so grossand huge theme) and how poet-man and proto-falschist (just joking) was better historian than many, it was indeed some idea of HIM, i'd say... many, many "how the hell" details on the (best shape ever) "boot" about us....

the ended. should be liked, at least give me a like....

also something just touched and maybe closer to modern times (but as i've said i believe in unbroken line from very far past) and people more interested in modern history...

if we are to talk about conspiracies and rightfully so and not just "lack of intent", "mistakes" or "tooth/pass of time", very shortly... for example HIM's mausoleum (calling it intentionally that way but of course was church)) was systematically ruined, unlike many so grounds that it contained many "secrets" and not just becuase "looked and smelled Vinegian )" is realistic and logical etc etc. main example. So what i intended to say - if we talk foreign powers (but maybe not maybe some secretive organisations like Templars hehe) but foreign powers strictly why I don't see Russian empire fitting - simply becuase they (pardon) lacked knowledge as well and were not involved at all in our medieval history, they did not know details nor what to target, my reasoning but think yourself.... in the same way, even more closer to today and again, I think our "nationalism" was more Italian influenced and supported indeed (without any negative connotation and is great sister which is 0% involved in med conspiray on us, except Orsini)) and not so much any "pan-Slavism"... the way our look at Habsburgs changed (even though they often prvileged us and even drawn maps with whole Croatia being "Serbs" etc)) is more the way we get closer with Italian intelectuals to extent, again without any negative in it... it is not Russian look at Austria that much if you ask me, as it even supported it against Hungary etc. it is more Italian look etc. While it surely had role in suppressing our true history in those 2 examples my opinion is that role of Russia is "over-dimensioned" or "hyper-dimensioned".... opinion based on many things, maybe not so important and as said maybe not even rulers of great powers were "true conspirators" against our history.... to me, nor i'm lover of modern history, not so important and nobody to understand that i'm giving Italy (and France) "negative role" by own thinkings, on the contrary again, think Italy is only which just followed 90-100% truth about our meds and ancients )

as said not only negatives in all, there is material for great mystery and action-mystery works of art, at least in Europe they heard for us so there is market if not then at least in Italy they heard of us etc ....i even bloody get it why Miluten is (if did not move) in Sofia ex-Serb/dica lovely and some respect from Bulgars

to finish if you like theme but cannot connect yourself, again Philip theme and why even French director made that movie on doctor Eco's book etc... as it basiclly also negate any guilt and "evilness" of him and Colonnas ; ...Aristotle is mentioned as Philip's mentor Colonna was (as were as others from family) able on his works and many other ancient works... you get it me not to waste words, just to add... it is so lovely, indeed 3 countries where "renaisannce" started 150 years than "official" (maybe Germans also had some "secrets" etc) In us whole 200 years before, wohoooo we rule And that is where greatness of book and theories is and whole event...small explain but we ended. so there is generally as i've said lots of space to modify E-history of the time and give us greater role for example and not just usual "humanism started when Serbia disapeared" conclusion lovely, thanks for reading and all involved in proper thinking... of course always add it is nice themes...

beautiful is, my beauties, how many of our local feuds date so long, long in the past - with Alba-longa since Diocletianus, with Papacy since they were left outside of Murus Servii, with Bulgars cince they touched sacred lands of Serds our ancestors, with Croats since dispute and schism about do "kravata" goes along our black dress etc etc. But in the same time all solved now and only future infront )

BTW, if you ever visit Miluten in Sofia/Serbica here is one song to prepare you for it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ifwf8RrU-94 badass, when i think about it more maybe most important figure of era... not only that he was before them all, them "importants", but also outlived them. Becoming his great fan rapidly, would be great film with he ashaming Philip, Edward and Michael "the writer" etc. But generally more "misogynist" and "faithful" to them than Philip and HIM, always disliked that character trait on "holy king"... watched reprisal of show with English lady today on BBC (the one which found stone phalus in Albania) in today Bulgaria but not a single mention of most important site in that country - Miluten's resting place (

btw also, what i noticed that Wiki page on Colonna family says that Egidio (Philip's tutor) died in 1314 while his personal page syas that he died in 1316, even giving date but it is from French sources so doubtful kiss, deeply ) ...anyway, why I like it for our our story if it was indeed 1314 - because it would make it trio Philip, Egidio and papa Clement all dying same year, mythical and like some revenge or shadow hand.... Philip's line also did not last long and before our HIM it went into Valois side branch as said..... same way as said Miluten's line, which wasn't even supposed to rule as he had older brother who also died either in 1314 or 1316 and only 3 generations after Miluten his and our most glorious line ever (except Croat emperor Titus)) finished - with Dusciano maybe poisoned and Urosh killed. Epic. Templars.

ooooooo, so beautiful, eeeeeee history so stinks ) but looking for some truth in it is fun, will remember this 2024 summer as time of great personal findings. it's been almost 40 years since i first watched "Rose" (probably not knowing much but liking atmosphere)) and only now i solved it all... do join me, say something and correct me becuase i don't trust French historians that much dying from some line from Italy, honestly would like some support since doctor Eco is gonne etc.... btw, apology to Orsini as well, dispute ended in early XVI, before our "angel" and "archangels" etc. came under attack.... but lovely stories when spiced with Italian divides so why i used your great family name. (it is G/Caetani i dislike)) Lovely and really made me richer while staying poor, feel so happy for solving it

will also use this chance as ending if/when talking about "completely torn apart things" (as in song).... it is simply on my heart like heavy balast and i will shoot, excuse while I see only Uranus )

to say thanks to Austria and Russia (now known as Rossia) both "great protectors of our history and whole civilisation" for tearing up like some vultures so called "Branko's belt" (Branko one of most prominent nobles of HIM and of trust) for tiny example, that part ended in Vienna, part in St Petersburg. For example... etc etc. That's what sisters are for... Million of such examples of "great protectors" but do not take it as "too tough" just felt huge need to say to all of you, but really, really what to do, no hate ) and wish you all well. We had really tough times - Polish/Slavic/Not our ) comics about "country balls" describe us as "angry ball"... maybe yes, not anger that much but we just want honesty and dislike hyposcrisy, so be honest. you get it why i had to say this ultimately but really is only one tiny example in many that made us as such... others i already mentioned.

so, to speak like "ball" but honestly above all or as they say "to speak frank" (which is mistake as we were Celts, not Franks but yes we had some kids with Franks as well, namely Capets as seen in previous episodes) - those are those finesses, delicate not-so-tiny details and things modern Poles (whom we also taught how to ride and wear winged helmets etc) cannot feel nor properly connect, as opposed to for example Italians, people of highest culture who can or could historically, understand what we were....because if we don't speak frank/celt we lose substance, we just lie ourselves constantly.... BTW also, your size (looking somewhere) as a ball "baby" shows that you absolutely hate imperialism, submission of others and domination, yeah... small finesses are that also some make monuments as a way to dominate or maybe "stress own importance", some make them (like that poor Italian guy Enrico) even intentionally giving their own history "to us" in one "i recognize you and i respect you way" etc etc. Always urge to say.... i also ready to talk to other bigger balls and say "nasty" things like there is cultural difference of one highly paid imperial guard of foreigners and the one you made out of foreigners etc etc etc. It is far history, but admit it... admit as well that in you language you have more words that are based on our i.e. Latin, both speak and dialect we use (ekavian), than maybe we have from yours etc etc. Honesty.

BUT - to say also in that way - while i really like Italy, cities, "feel" in some complete way and consider it sister (but population not so much hehe - just joking, i like they are cute and small and defenseless, culture crazed etc) of course there are no "sisters" on this planet, and my speak is more romantic talk than truth... watch them more than needed and of course there are numbers i see on their TV and of course they do not even consider us as "anything important" as money is brought by someone else etc, and (remember) Italians invented "love of money before many else on this continent", slave trade, body turned into commodity etc etc. So no naivness or similar... no sisters on this planet, but nonetheless hugely, more than any other nation maybe respect their historical honesty, readiness to give us credit and even (very rare thing) to sometimes say that in periods we were "more important than them", which i courtoasilly reject as we did it together ...tough subjects, but think talking is "nice" and just threw another balast from my inside ;

we went far from subjects ; but lovely as any - think i finished but really gave some explains to you all in the way how history shaped my philiopshy as well

anecdotes and similar - Italy I visited (last time)) in some late 80s, was young playboy under 10 ).... as then Yugoslave (i.e. as Serb, north Latin of course) it was small city of Trieste, but with huge history and almost became Papal office once etc. It was known to us as someplace with Serbs and it had then also huge "pijaca" of flee market or how to call near "Ponte Rosso" etc. So when we get there I asked parents, pointing at market sellers "Are those Serbs?"

also as knowledgeable - if not clear from my posts - if/when you ever get to Italy and meet locals first thing you ask them as urgent "Are you Guelph or Ghinelline?" Of course, important thing if visiting restorants, caffes and similar, inform before is owner guelph or ghibelline not to say something unpleasant etc

third and last, when you stop Italian lady on street for some info you must say (write down): "Sguza my principessa, my serenissima etc... where is Colosseum?" (for example but first part mandatory) ....... IDK, it is indeed that we have something for that women, i think it is not even secret at all so it is culturally and politically correct to say i think, so big kiss with obviously funny, respectful line there - but most honestly far from able ourselves with them and more some huge respect than anything "basic or explicit" (at least me)) and would personally rather talk with doctor Eco etc Maybe language, Latin origin, some "instant friendship" after we met again in middle ages, else etc etc..... and so on, would like to finish as i started Anna D. would be huge, attractive and unique and truthful of all - totally historically correct and deserving as, again, even Miluten ruled less than 40 years, HIM 25, Titus 35 - but Anna (if we accept theory by them, maybe to me has logic) whole 50 years "untouchable", listened and "king-maker"

...simply to say to people as subject is indeed huge, maybe not to modern person but it is almost "eureka moment" ) who would never go through it themselves. Great is role of French historians who maybe dislike to talk it or to "influence mainstream" in all this as most of us would probably never went alone through this labyrinth and French families and Capetian games... It was so both intendedly and often without intent made complex, masked and so cutely often traits or role of one person or faction twisted to other and vice versa as i touched on many examples, our role, "who is guelph or ghibelline" etc etc.

shortly, what some "huge" moment for us is that (sadly i think never to be known as fact unless indeed some paper is burried very deep) is that (sadly) theoretically Miluten (and Draguten) might be not from "female Capetians" (which is for me almost 100% accepted) but maybe even from daugther of not only Charles "quasi Anjou" but maybe king of France Louis IX "only saint/canonized French king ever" (think), who indeed had many daughters and female relatives and pursued such policy of continental reach.... even "holy king" nickname for Miluten fits in that way, but really what to say except that how to prove it. Again dates, our marriage with them is before Charles gained Sicily (maybe also because of our papal ties of time)), before 7th crusade and many other thing and before resurrection of Byzantine empire - and why ultimately Capets and Miluten/Draguten were "most urged to act by that event". That is huge moment in whole story we only see as shape, but again sadly "paper"

personally couldn't believe myself that 'Elen could have been directly from there and generally refrained from saying (and from further investigations as film says)) clearly and is enough now, but just to make life easier to some lovers for example. Incredible respect and role (why?) we gained from French Capets (hehe that's why HIM asked for "captain" title) that it is incredible and even before all known events.... changes to extent not only our history, history of Venice, gives it some more positive role in at least try to unite Dandolos and Capets as said - but it snaped and went in again hostility etc. Huge thing but sadly theoretical but some French historians see it as that as well.... Respect was so huge that they did not even try "direct rule" on Serbia but (sadly not so valued but respected) female line and until they went extinct (while they possibly could and indeed had almost all lands around us in name) never claimed in their long titles "kings or rulers of Rascia/Serb/via or such"... ultimately why Venice, despite sending ships, despite sending troops, despite letting reinforces for HIM to pass through its territory, despite giving/confirming citizenship - in the end did not trust him completely and reasons were as they knew that "French faction" is around and in his surrounding and him being descendant of line "that minorized Venice" etc. Ina way solved as well...

those are some "helpful ideas or theories" we share - hope some men with red cross or "opus dei" emblems won't knock on my door Boniface did canonize Louis IX though so i indeed suspect that inter-Roman struggles are more important for event and his death than direct wish or interest of both Philip IV or Miluten, but house of Kesar "huge slap" for us ) ....hope you get something out of it and will hopefully not talk more, but again if this is not great historical topic i don't know what is. Uh, Frankia you were so respectful that i can't believe mu previous mention of Plantagenets is so fun from this prospective so big pardon for that and other words without thinking )

...changes a lot of things, clears the brain, makes you want to kiss them... just imagine Miluten as uncle of Philip III ) holy king as his father in law )

doubt that even narrative (not sure what western narrative is at all) for not so important battle in 1396 of Nicopolis is true in some sense "western knights were winning until Stefan Lazarević almost crushed them " as we would not have surely, even in surprise charge any number to change anything anymore ; (maybe only for lighter armed Mongols etc. from east)....so only tiny detail from story is close to truth, that when Stefan's banner and insignia was seen near battlefield western troops (out of again huge respect and trust) decided to listen to him and maybe orderly retreat (as he was afraid for own sister, for example)... simply no chance him and few hundreds, maybe thousands even Serb knight to surprise equally armed troops of western fighters in much greater number and skills, my thinking.... really minor example but how it changes narratives & his later role of rescpect with Sigismund, confirms exactly that - respect.

many examples, really to help you all... some respect in situation when we could have been crushed was constant and only Byzantines "hated us" (understandably) as they seen Franks/Romans and all in us sometimes even greater dislike and "furry and barbaric lines" than to Turks (description of quasi Maritsa is from Byzant legends, btw) which says enough about what Byzantines seen in us all for science and personally even dislike to talk subjects of dislike - beauty of our conclusions and true subjects is on the other side, enigmatic respect and "can't touch this moments" really why for the end - well one of theories is there.... other being "for head taller than all" just joking in the end we had such figures because of your incredible wives ;

generally why i wanted to say also, ending myself.... to be clear for all readers, why is for us (quasi) touchy more than for anyone... well same like with what "we did to Christ" 1300 years earlier i.e. of course it is not easy to say that we were main force in "twice fall of sisterly Romea" if you get it ...but far from our church having some organs, wanting to prevent other speaking etc. so it is OK to share or retell with own words story to some people who maybe have no clue but like our history etc..... AND always mind that we solved it elegantly - poor Dusciano without direct guilt did 40 years in jail for all our "sins" lovely and beautiful, really to hug you France and Italy in some encouragement that stories are possibly true.....

you know why i also, except true like of subjects and history, insist so much on subjects and details.... well, not to quote doctor Eco but indeed internet and "connection" gave a lot of voice to "anyone" and "noise" simply kills any truth or logic, significance or those who, even with many mistakes as i demonstrated at least have some knowledge.... nice is example on "youtube" for example noticed on that "Knightfall" (which is fiction and authors say it) video i posted - people who are interested and watched it, comment such BS ) showing that they have no idea about sujects at all - going to bad everyday thinking that Philip killed wife and so on ...but despite doctor Eco and me "being bores" ) and some comments of course that world is moving in one direction with connection that is..... great!

anyway since here to add also to subject and people liking some symbolism... and to those maybe ready to consider theory that our 'Elen might be from the "St Louis" himself, maybe even before his marriage with Blanche or early in it. Not only that lines started by his brother Charles might confirm that in a way i told i.e. "respectfully" avoiding line of our rulers which is "untouchable" as has relative of "saint king" etc. but also some very interesting symbolism in behaviour of rulers... namely, i already talked how Dushan, who was our IV in true name like Philip, "copied him" (maybe inital idea was ours as Miluten's codes and many sources were also ruined and unsurvived) in relation with church figures, being relatively respectful to wife and similar.... even more interesting are small and few details how Miluten hence our "holy king" like Louis - hence both granddads of our IVs - had same moves internally but also globally (so Miluten considered important to make own presence at Jerusalem etc) but internally details... Miluten also like Louis built own smaller "chapel" in something what was "royal complex" (in our case monastery Studenica by Nemanja as we lacked some big cities like Paris of "isle of France") founded hospitals, including Constant one etc, "towers" and smaller details of kind which look he wanted to "copy grandad" Louis ) ....only degeneration was different relation to women as said, Miluten had 5 all of different nationalities and always "sent away" previous like he dislike them after new marriage... generally Capets weren't like that, but beside that great symbolic details - from "holy kings" to their "mighty or iron" grandkids IVs ) it is also lovely in a way when you give it attention...

of course in hurry i flicked family relations at start of previous post but think it is clear what i meant and who was whose uncle and grandada nice theory, what else to say... some, btw, historians consider that our peak line is maybe from infact Latin emperors, hence also Frenchmenm Baldwin etc. but to me this looks and sounds (because we were avoided and so contacted by Philip) like in some unprovable way maybe, very likely to even more fitting.... alas. Despite "quietness" hope you all enjoyed talked about, really would like to hear from you .... ;p

it would also explain Venice completely.... despite some excessive silver mining and "overflow" of Italy (or non-Capets north of it better said) doubt that it would just "panic" of some Rascian king, grandkid of Dandola as well ), with some "French whore from tavern" (kiss and for drama) but at least 3-4 and repeatedly made laws against "Milten's finance" shows that it in fact paniced of something bigger ïn his blood" as well as many Italians who talked it, of some "beast coming from both sides" so it also fits in a way that they seen him as "much greater bloodline" etc. Dante talked "beast" never mentioning any important king by name for example.... but Italians did join him in great number as said and were often proud of his given knighthood, but also nor Venice ever declared war to him, unlike with Hungary where war was "instant" after rule of "Anjous" strengthened there, but maybe "not from that brother" if you think it... many details that fit and i can only like them.

bloody corpse, carcassus turned upside down and then beaten and eaten that's we and potentially could have had great monuments, streets and "St Louis" (for example but who cares)) named things, just based on true and beautiful history that was ours, but mostly taken by others and we "in shame" and denial great.... but hehe we are enigmatic and giving them puzzles, that's why they like us ) not for obvious things and pushing our history to them all navalently ))

on Napoleon ultimately - oh, how easy is to trick yourself ) - Genova is siter and all, Elena Gatt. was "hidden power of politics" hahaa etc. Savoys like us etc ) - and in fact when i think it it wasn't his "Genoese upbringing" in him that made him "dislike us".... it was as he was true "French of new kind and kid of revolution" ; i.e. he seen country that was arguably in closest ties with "old France" and old kings once and which had "Louis grandkid" ruling it once, if you get it. Now, that's possibly true reasons as he knew history nicely and he joked with us.... Ilirian provinces and nohelp to "old Rascian Capets" ) ....also fits but lets leave him and modern history aside ; ..... Elen of Louis (officailly accepted)) is, btw - they say one of most if not the most pictured woman in our meds. Details above marrative i say... what say except gross in positive way - but again we are very ashamed of it and never had ties with them

only this more for today (and possibly forever))....

about Genova, not courtesy (or how did i wrote before? well it is old Frank)) really, trying to be nice but hey, since i mentioned it it was Genoese traders that spread "black rascia" (as sometimes pricy silk also) to E-Spain and their nobles and population generally... (and Belgium, today Neverlands etc etc) Originally assumed from Venetians, already part of dressing in Italy (as they looked to us for fashion, cuties) and via Genova further, as said Spanish lands and else.... so big plus for Genova indeed even though it is dead as term now and if it wasn't dead it would not be related (due to false i.e. later pronounce) to Serbia anyway it died out maybe in XVII c, but nonetheless some plus to Genova in "cultural way" for us.... I mean i posted here and had article once, not now nor i will look for it it was mentioned there, if you catched (sorry to newver readers but will have to trust me).... again, not important as is dead as name, important for history lovers and how we had fame and respect again, hence it was Genova who spread it outside of Italy... besides, Garibaldi IIRC (again not looking at any text) Mazzini were from that region, not to mention Savoys who all constantly talked about us and couldn't imagine united Italy without ....so Venice main, but it cooled down maybe, Bologna, Rome BUT truly Genova (uh, Florence, Ravenna and Pisa... and Treviso etc)) as well all important for us in some old ties, so again credit to "republic" (patrician like Venice) with whome we had "wars" but good moment as well, hurts to say but even more spread our "fame" further than serenissima

lovely subjects, but that much from me... lots to read, lots to think and of course - main thing - to join me in some nice theme

must say also this, in very lighter tone ) and must of course say that it crossed my mind several times regarding subject of "conspiracies" against us and to say that if you my cutie Venetia had anything to do with it.... well i'm gonna strangle or better said "prokedim" you out of pure love

most seriously I think everyone know how Venetian history developed after our fall, how they named some lands etc. But 1000x repeat, it simply gives no logical trace them to "encourage" or target themselves something related to Dusciano who made tomb on their model and with laying statue on grave, mosaics... can't even accept that they would "target" things related to 'Elen.... i love Venice and am 100% for Dandola touching skies etc, but must say it is subject of wrong interpretations and some hate...

so i stress again hust for importance of subject that it should be repeated i think as much as thought that "Latin heresy" line by Dusciano is fake and that he never touched nor besieged Durazzo, did not do much to hurt French interests etc. This one worth repeating in that sense of historical acurracy... Venetians did have deals with George "golden fork" and did do their parts of deals - they sent ships, Serbs recorded by Italians singing (first epic maybe about "golden fork" i.e. him) and dancing in central Italy of round time are those taken and shiped by Venetians directly (and not those who maybe went with Alban figure Skenderbeg as some wrongly say), he probably gave them St Luca relics, and some Serbs were also taken to Venice itself and some of Venetian families are (without knowing) of our origin... so they did play fair while whole subject is "complicated" and maybe sometimes maliciously presented...

so take of your mask to kiss you Vinegia most seriously on subject, repeat is a must

before we forget... Venice is simply "convinient" for such things.... it is mysterious, it is quasi mercantile, it is that it was different than many of us, again quasi republic while we in majority "Christian (origin like HIM)) monarchies", their trait to "hide or evade" bigger (except sea), needing some love and support, "mask" as symbol etc etc. I even think that their whole role on slavery in some massive way is "blown up" and that their dealt with piracy... after all, Bulgar source says that we had slaves as well..... all taken into account why i think that our stories, Rascian, Croat but Zetan as well in minor extent (where after all Conti had base after events etc.) above all are precious for them and sadly Venice itself also went into some "anti-Nemanide" histeria in some extent..... but exactly theory that they maybe approached us (even during life of maybe even Enrico which would be gross as new moment) and we had no hate shows that there wasn't some big slavery (while we being Latin anyway)), that marriage was given great care and whole city "fiested" that ships were arranged, that Italians came here when "nobody liked them" both as warriors but also artists, "white angel" dates to Anna times and many such details actually picture us as some "protectors of Vinegia" and has importance... so wrong narratives should be thousand times tried to point out, while nobody knows whole truth in conspiratory and murky middle ages.... really hurts me many times even to say some things, because it was basically one positive story. Of course "great and holy king" Miluten couldn't trust them completely being "imperial" nor they could trust him etc. etc. In a way important "to clear name of both them and HIM in many ways" while they had their "sins" )

anyway, what to say else... i think both us and them knew some "deep and old secrets" of ancient world and in a way "our church" (and St Sava person) is deeply interconected with Venice almost like we created some church on event of "crowning Dandola against papal wish", for example explained.... but for fun - simply do not know now nor remember much, not even round dates nor name of Dogo but cutest story I remember about Venice is (really nothing in brain except story) when one Dogo went with troops on crusade, never reached target, maybe some isles etc, and then they returned to Venice - and angry citizens lacking result "lynched him and entourage" Cute country, would be cute to exist but we can't go against Romulians )) and then we to coorperate friendly as equal in size, marry as equal in size etc ) anyone from there? what you say, where i'm wrong etc...

IDK, really deeply believe this is truth as i see, but Frankia's role and offer was so full of respect........

last one in this block, today about Venetian history obviously.... sadly couldn't find "my story" from above but i think it is true and not that. if it is anyway that just i mixed something closest to some story is fate of doge Vitale II Michiel (this last name doesn't sound very ekavian to me)) in around times of also our struggles with Manuel Komnenos (arguably last important Byzant emperor) and very much our alliances with both Vinegia, "Lega" as well (not on that subject), Hungarians, and already dead Roger II of Sicily, whom Byzantines choosen of all to be "our inspirator and motivator" lovely.... btw, again think it is not that story, but not so important for me to look for it, you get it how cute was their history... remembered one moment from Manuel's "fantasies" that in one moment their chroniclers wrote and described "Serb troops (in various descriptions) as wearing masks i.e. with hidden faces, armed faces" etc. etc. but we also had "hoplites", hide in the woods, made ambushes and 100 things by Byzantines - but not subject and just remembered that "masked/hidden faces" detail like Vinegia etc.

what i wanted to say for the end is that history and events in Venice itself during Dushan rule are very symbolically interesting and was eventful, generally in way hiw much Venice was really our ally in those events, already mentioned some things and that HIM regularly "reported" there... It (Vin) was in wars itself, very heavy ones and with Genoese involved, plague like all but also strong earthquake strook city in times when Dushan demanded more help But most interesting for us, if you don't know, is that ruling Dogo during HIM's proclamation of empire and huge spread (while Venice also spread the most in those years in Italy) if i never said - was Dandolo, Andrea, think last of that family so we together killed Nemanide and Dandolo in same times lovely as well and symbolic. (he was in same friendships with Petrarca, like Colonnas, btw, it fits) Doge that succedeed him in time of Dushan's "talks" with Louis was also interesting character Marin Faliero who was executed "by senate" for quasi plottin against system and republic as doge ; ....so those are times and place ) when and where HIM hoped to get some support, so after seeing all that he decided to die himslef many lovely details, history of Venice and fitting of dates deserves special attention and care, but rarely we have time to talk it all... again many fitting details, many suspicious etc. Generally it was alliance if not "trumpeted" on all sides.... i enjoy stories and tiny details, so gladly share with you, while we are searching for some answers

you know what is good joke if it did not come to you as well ; - some powers acuse Serbia, Hungary, "Lega" and Vinegia etc. for not being supportive enough... well, where were you all when we were fighting Byzantine empire and Manuel all by oursleves?

seriously, dislike politics and this are eternal subjects and historical not daily and of course that we are all supportive of "Uranus faction" even Macron is here with me now and we are dealing some future 'Elen for us ) and to give us nuclear bombers and subs )

seriously 2, aren't subjects lovely - so anyone claiming that some tie and respect between Serbs and northern Italians not to mention Venice is "of yesterday" or sooner date it is lie as our ties and respect date as seen 1000 years ago (amybe even longer if we accept theories), it is our old natural ally and friend above any daily topics ; ...which doesn't exclude our love for Napolitanke and all ; ....seriously 3, was active today - Iagain demonstrated how details as said million times are above any narrative in historical research, lovely example in previous post. So, even i'm wrong as many that Vinegia "did not want to help" or "did not trust him etc" as exact details show that it couldn't help HIM even with 1000% wish and desire as it was in huge problems, but it did help him etc. Not saying that we Dandloians and Capets are "right" just that narrative on that example is not so true... it was Dandolo Dogo and of course he would help his relative etc. unimportant, really finished for some time, but very proud how nicely, both with love and with historical truth, above all many shocking details i hope i told some stories, think 90% will appreciate if loving history but dying to hear you

as mentioned, looked at mama-lengthy article (Eng of course) on "Nicoplis battle" and of course it is narrative, without any exact data or thinking, meaning only our involvement... I was young but remember through the mist...BTW, noticeable is that we quasi had "huge role" in almost every battle then until 1402, but suddenly not so mentionable role in battles like against Venice or Hussites under Sigi etc. ; ...so stinks of some "eastern fairytales" in some sense but probably Stefan L. was respected for some skills... what is concludable also from stories is that we had "best armor in the world" for sure ) but that we talked before, i said probably Italian school of armor, maybe modified and with horse protection, painted in black ;

anyway, many mistakes... starting from quasi fact that we were already "conquered" since 1389 - whichis not true, state existed just paid tribute and had to sell aux force. Same as for example republic of Ragusa of Dubrava was tributory of our kings (and Venice) and evensent troops hereso we had "Ragusan man-at-arms" in our campaigns, but it was not conquered by us, nor vassal as for true vassal relations it must be religious fitting... so both Stefan and George de jure were not sltan's vassals and hated them and plotted against them, so Turks were right in that sense.... other details as i don't see fit as all - namely, pure logic is that Sigismund would never accept (as first on list even, catholic even)) Stefan just 7-8+ years later in own knight order if he was instrumental in huge defeat, huge fear he felt and humiliation.... more logical would be Sigi to want "Stefan's head" right after 1402 as who was Stefan to give him not only place but cities as well, so unlogical .... and so on, our history "quasi known" is so full of holes and fakes, sadly

Tuchman favored a literary approach to the writing of history, providing eloquent explanatory narratives rather than concentration upon discovery and publication of fresh archival sources. In the words of one biographer, Tuchman was "not a historian's historian; she was a layperson's historian who made the past interesting to millions of readers"

in short fairytales ...most lines used by text are from her, some old American historian Barbara (ooooooo Barbara) Tuchman ) but respect, dispite many illogical BS to her and like for even popularising meds history.... but i'm the one of "details and facts above narrative" again, more logical and truthful. Again,don't care about particular subject nor it is important just as i mentioned it myself from head....

BUT, but - it has tiny detail i instantly noticed.... some French knight who previously fight for Murad, sultan "we killed". Did this Frenchmen, if true, then kill our boys in Murads campaigns..... i'm gonna strangle you France!

my last message, you always prefer/try to make some logical connections like i bravourosely did with Dandolo doge ....narratives about us are mostly untrue while small facts show that we had greater role in other events where our role is barely mentioned etc from "calming of Boris to giving Venice an empire and the end"... not to bore but consider... Italians, Italians had it in details, even non-historian Gabriele had them, he also, btw, stressed that Dushan never claimed Albania in title besides well-known "firstborn of Christ" title ...small addition as well, so cut it with narratives and try to be scientific, but generally think it will come to some rightful place with hopefully some honest French and Italian historians and finally we get deserved lines in history of "western Europe" as well.... simply, when you think again - and the end - Enrico or Louis IX, Colonna or Clement would not consult or marry "just anyone".... Brits as well must be open about it and admit that they knew and that it said "vitas" in our literature, "high-handed-...anus" in noble name and all that. Doesn't hurt anyone but helps only truth and lovers of subjects. The end i hope.

because - to finish why it is important - when you have nation (or then feudally used tribe for example, before that tribe that left Papal office outside of wall, brutals etc)) that wrote "Latin heresy" on walls of churches ) that hated everyone inthere west of them, who rehected any western wife as "dirty" and never existing ) that served Turks with fantism and crushed westerners, who killed Austrian half-god and definitely did not think like Italians but someone from east etc etc. you then have tribe everyone hates and everyone agrees it should be, if need be, "badly beaten" and defintely tribe that is not worthy of our company or any "European connection"

sadly for us - many among us did buy fairy tales and fakes avoiding true and beautiful history ; ....kiss Italy, life saver but it did not get to us even ) nonetheless very honorable... ultimately why i also insist, let it be nice conclusion.... invite you as always

even more, honesty my middle name and i can't stay "unfinished" on this important subject....

with respect to Barbara, then already older lady just using some sources that were negatively-toned to us, and think not guilty in that sense..... But it is noticeable in text, article but only to delicate/refined eye some tone or "sense"....

for example - during events some Bulgarian noble, previously vassal of sultan, instantly surrendered "not wanting to serve Turks" and "only bloodshed was killing of Turkish fort crew", further "Byzantine empire was reduced to area around Constant" not mentioning that from some time Byzantines also paid to Turks AND then in contrast you have Serb Stefan serving his "ally" "brother-in-law" (it was harem btw) and "vassal master" in such decisive way in a way not even thinking about "doing like Bulgar lord" or similar etc. .....maybe getting it wrong but smells like some "anti-Serb" notion ) and almost like Serbs "old Latin haters" just hardly waited all this but might be wrong about Barbara's and others narratives etc ) but think not )

so I lied, it is important subject in historical look not Barbara's fault it was desire to tell it that way in general to public in the west, of course wrongly... again it is totally fake and our meds hence "urgent" subject to all lovers... so simbolically, you understand how grand were that papers that survived about Anna and marriage are important and if they did not survive and other small details, Miluten from "one who arrested Michael by Capet wish" into hater of west, HIM from lover of Venice into 3m tall hater ) and all said.... you get it, not angry at all but must change in historiography and practice Similar is subject, must say with sadness, who hated Italians by the end of ww2 if you get it - while we are not touching any modern events and as i said it is true that now many of our "smart heads" bought own "anti-stuff" kiss again to you historically fair people and i think inegia should finance "huge Anna" am i right?

really put Vinegia in wrong context and wrong moment above and (combined with my previous comical part and general inability of people to understand every detail) so to correct that before we say goodbye one song you can karaoke )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8bojvAvOi4

and this from times of XII c and start of our love... very funny and showing that back than even Serenissima wasn't so different from us, maybe even more backwarded (i mean us in XIX c)) lovely historical detail, againwe are talking time of Nemanja/Nemanio here )

Next, Frederick (Barbarossa,i add) engaged The Patriarch of Aquileia to attack Grado. This attack also failed, and merely resulted in Grado having to pay an annual tribute to Venice - a dozen pigs annually on the Wednesday before Lent. These pigs were chased around the Piazza on the following day by the people of Venice.

Fridrih was iliterate, Venice getting dozen pigs annually and we in about time wrote in already dead Latin, huge "vitae" ....again put it in wrong place in previous post and not related to previous sentences, just wanted to say that Venice as richer now should pay for it (250 m?) as indeed we did many things for them as protectors it was our duty ) and while we lasted

must say i do not get it - Venice is world-wide famous and Dandolo probably most famous/sounding family even present in games ) and we are only country on continent that had queen and very few landmarks, anything to "trumpet it"... not for tourist as i don't care ) but for us and them, just to have it even if no visits would be great etc. We lack sea but hope (after incoming statue of course) we will at least name our first spaceship "Ana Dandolo".... we are not very logical and it is not even "bad" to anyone as our first archbishop crowned her, there is (seen in wiki) even family of origin in Greece and so on...

fun fact for weekends, you probably don't know my Vinegians but to say, as most kings had some nicks, except your republican Dogos which weren't that anyway.... not looking at text now but Anna's son was known as "rugged one" in English, maybe even Latin heresy ) it sounds as strong, muscular or of exceptional constitution etc. and just proving how beautiful Anna was, but in our it could be connected to nasty character or similar ) ...beautiful family that went up to 3 meters at peak as said really understand it only now why empire came only 2-3 years after Andrea was elected and inhuge problems there, as some encouragement and "we can make it" ) for years did not connect it properly as well as many subjects, but i think we talked it enough so another lovely detail for you, king's nick... always say something

talking about our future space fleet and nominees for names i think good one would be "Altomanus" as in a way one greeting aliens ) "Elen" for exploring planets and forms of unknown origin and of course mothership of our fleet - "The Mighty" ) ....who can do better? maybe you France with name like "the Iron one", well it wouldn't last long in space with that material

seriously and btw i say again that Venetian history in relation to us deserves special care ihaven't always given... in that sense, the Dogo during Miluten's takeover of throne (maybe agreed by all powers) was again Dandolo, Giovanni ; ...so it fits regarding to our events almost in every important moment on our side. Giovanni was also relatively important doge and also almost "earned" crusade by another pope, not Clement of course, but it stayed on interdict, excommunication of whole city ) etc. cute... btw, don't take my words i.e. trust me but i also think that Venetian laws against Miluten date after his rule, only during 1280s while (think) Anti-Mil laws were post 1300s... also posted texts and links with exact dates for lovers before, now not so important.... in any way, we concluded that Miluten and events, arrest of Michael VIII etc. we cannot relate directly to Dondolo doge, as we agreed and related them to Capets, their wish after "Vespers" & of course our brothers being grandsons of Louis IX ....in any way lovely and worth knowing as well, hence Miluten's rise is paralelled with another Dandolo in office in Vinegia...

Dandolos are quasi related *very disyantly and so confirmed) with Benito, you know which ) ....even today we have some relations with Benito's grandaugther etc. not so bad bad lady in looks etc. But not we just some of our origin, but not even in any touch... however Benito's claimed relation with Dandolo family is interesting for history lovers.... many secrets and we in new age are not gonna hide them, just "proudly out" )

and so on etc. enough details for a while.... join me ;

to conclude however on this topic now when you have further info.... i'm still laughing and guess i will until i live... it is figure Europe never had in such form, not becuase of his deeds in life (almost alright for time) but becuase of mysteries and whole story in death

so he did 40 years in "jail kelia" not only for himself and (very heretical but fun indeed)) his line (not unique probably, it's some Romanism as said) he did it also for Enrico, for whole Dandolo family, and it seems also for "relative" Benito (as he was found in 1927) very funny fate, haven't been long but makes me wanting to go and kiss the sarcophagus )

what is strong feeling or personal opinion out of all those medieval "maskenball" again is that (and nothing to do with modern events) that faction Anna, HIM, Andrea, Colonnas maybe even a bit distant from epicentre and (quasi if true) more brutal Philip was some "renaissance" one... maybe yes maybe not, but makes you proud and, maybe subjectivelly one of the greatest stories in Europe history ....but yes we humanoids are complicated and nothing is easy - clear example i'd die (not really because whatis point then)) for Vinegia if need be, not for money, not for position or office, just for one masked lady but as said really love honestly whole "boot"

here's also for our story and not to use own words as i'm tired this "important link" of that doge that followed and who made anti-Mil laws etc, think it is interesting and how he also moved further from patrician republic towards more oligarchy and to creation of "council of then".... well, unlike other page it says that Clement also never declared crusade on Venice too, just interdict so Wiki is fun as always ;.... but nonetheless Miluten used confusion to sell poor Costanza Morosini (this doge wife family so it fits also) and profit well (he was humane and sold her to France) ....lovely stories that are endless and huge like to all involved, we did it like pros )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pietro_Gradenigo

to say also this, if you are lazy and didn't do homework yourself ) that doge in rule during "during Dushan's takeover of throne and bye to Dechanski" was also - you guess right, Dandolo and last one from quartet that ruled in office, Francesco.... i never joke needlessly and this one was behind joke "il Dogo" as he allegedly wear a collar or chain around neck (today usual part of our look)) in front of pope quasi demanding dim to lift an interdict and excommunication of Vinegia, which was more normal thing for them than not being "anathemised" So he gained nick Dog or Cane (whichis also common nickname in us)) on that quasi episode.... so all 4 Dandolo dogos so deeply and importantly interconnected with our events that it simply is no coincidence although pages avoid ever mentioning us ;

so some conclusion... Miluten, despite being primarily "French" surely was encouraged by presence of Dandolo in office, but it was bad luck for him that after 7 years of own rule huge gap of almost 40 years of "no-Dandolo" happened and he had to make it on his own from this side.... in 1329 another Dandolo is in office and some ideas start to rise in our nobility to support change from somehow "ambivalent" Dechanski (and liar)) and support for young king, which realised after 2 years and takeover of throne by HIM, Dandolos there remind... So Dushan was like "woohoo we go!" but after 8 years Francesco died and another "unfriendly" Gradenigo took office and Dushan was like "Wtf? what to do now"... but after just 4 years another Dandolo, Abdrea was in office and Dushan was like "woohooo, empire!" and then he died in 1354, another doge lost head and all hopes lost etc. lovely

tried to make some place for Stefan "Dechanski" in all this,and as seen he ruled in "Dandolo interregnum"...he led country well, bravely faced both Byzant and II Bulgar empire and eventually break their alliance.... eventuallyas i read it, it was that his lastmarriage with Byzantine wife and presence of that Sinisha (Simeon) thatmight scare both our nobility and Dushan that some different current might pravail, so they had to take action as said even more ensured with relative Francesco Dandolo being in office etc. likable and how i see it.... Dechanski wasn't bad just lied too much about Miluten ; ....some speculate (and i'm not expert on religious and history of art) that famous lions infront of main hall of Dechani church, with their legs on himan heads instead of "Venetian book" is some small joke by Franciscans who made church.... but always mind that Dushan supervised and finished church and i doubt (as he was Dondolide in heart) he would allow,,, let it be small likable story.

generally yes, for the end of beautiful story - it is safe to say that our medieval history is deeply tied with that family and nothing to be ashamed there, as they often were "one of the progressive ones" but again warning on Miluten as he was more Capet than someone who looked at Venetian moves, hence small clash.... but again, he was not completely without tie with Dandolos, just - repeat - he had to manage in 40 years long gap without them (as his son) during our peak... really hope for the end, that history will be written once that will mention our interconnection and ties more truthfully... as is now except on Enrico and Anna's page we are not mentioned anywhere and that is not historically correct as events were tied.... so love this new relaxed world of truth we live in ...but nonetheless, instead of Wiki you have me for some deeper/proper look )... lovely stories without any sarcasm and why not finally telling them - why hiding that we were good guys once? always say something from there, no fear )

Italy is so complex subject that really to "ivestigate" or research it not even completely but to some 70-80% (i mean then) you would need 3-4 lives... even some of their historians told clearly that they (as i mentioned) do not know full extent of role of some of their figures and families, events to greater continental policy and similar, not even domestic, let alone ties with all us ; ....so i hope it is not to "bold" or disrespectful from me to even say that whole event some "blamed" on Philip IV (not to mention Miluten)) is maybe not related to him at all, just Italian "thing"... sometimes they do not mention us (Italians) not because of intent but because they do not want to claim anything without papers, while they see clear tie and connection with us that spread to XX c, as said few times (no not Benito))

here's one story (and relatively "new" detail for me thatit is claimed now that he was "main" patron of Dante, hence "ghibelline" which is "shock") of "Big Dog" if you can wrestle with it, comprehend some details not narrative and make something out of it.... English always more as "lingva franca" than something "holy" or most important as we proved many times

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cangrande_I_della_Scala

well, both me and Italian lovers/experts are to extent right to doubt that Dante "attacked Miluten and insted satirized Venice" with his line to us, so theory is in place but reallyask him ).... it is becuase of "jerky" relations with Venice of the figure (albeit he was rewarded with some honor there later, but big bit....) and so on. Other things touching us is Treviso, families of "Ludwig" Bavarian and Fridrih Habsburg (as said Dushan's wish) and many minor details that do touch us... and as said our and Italian "respect for canines" (but kiss to cats) is something we share in some human form, for us as said more "Roman legend" wolf that stayed through even late middle ages and further, todayof course... only in "ancient" Germany also in minor way in the times, but not the most important thing. Some events and ties more intersting as i really can't type all ;..... it is "scary" how Miluten knew exactly (would it be normal for just some "distant" Rascian king) what to target, where to push for influence i.e. Bologna now and then, Ferrara, Este but of course that Treviso, where he recruited and had influence etc. (most famous grave etc) Diplomat of exceptional sense, we would say and again "scary" sense of Italian divisions but also supports at times.... IDK, maybe Italians do not like it today as we are not so attractive as then but think we were so deeply involved, to repeat and their book from 1930 was right to place us on "second/third place" of "importance" for them in times.... how not to like. Anyway, look at some details again, as said to me relatively newer story which changes "look at Dante" to extent etc.

for fun. like that detail and "question" - who poisoned around famous figures.... well, isn't it already accepted that France poisones half of "known Europe" of the times seriously, there is always even slim trace that could lead to there but kiss ) ....really million details we can notice in tie with us, and stories that just on first and non-delicate eye might look as "what we had to do with it?" but not really.... humoristaically looked at more Gradenigo links (luckily short)) and must say that later "Venetian renaissance" is work of devil, proto-erotica they weren't so "unfriendly" (why i wrote it that way) as i said and that mentioned doge Gradenigo was actaully "podesta" (like logothete in our things) and surely in good touch with our events and as young man witnessed Miluten in action etc... it is funny how in those years (as mentioned) series of natural disasters struck Vinegia and surely without them we would rule the world till today

what to speak more, i haven't before

so nice are stories and details evaded by many, that it is almost "shocking" one one hear them.... it is so interrconnected and tied and dates back centuries ago until some story reached "epilogue or some eruption". Although disappointed that nobody likes history i enjoy myself... So I never told story in detail but mentioned family many times ) of eventual (probable and true) origins of Orsini family is from Venetian house/family of Orseolo, itself directly/indirectly from one of more famous doges Orso or Ursus, and is "paradox" (yes and not as our Dandolides were in unfreindly relations with them through our peak) that our peak rulers all carry his Latinized name in their own names, although more known by their nicks i.e. "middle names" ; (maybe because) ...and that first and last Nemanide-Dandolide had it as sole name ) ...Vinegia hence "secretive source" of all troubles, but sister that was so important for us.... Orseolo family was also found in line of Hungarian kings and (think not expert) Croatian - even more signifying our later "troubled relations" with them once other Venetian factions consolidated here etc. So (probable) Ursus or Orso in 8th c, Orseolo family and then "Roman" Orsini, archrivals Colonna forever lovely and now you know this as well... As i also talked, despite theories and accepted origin, there is even small doubt about Vinegian origins and as mentioned some of our words and dialect are more "Latin i.e. Roman" in examples than Venetian language, but not important ; And as said, unlike with Croats and Hungarians (Magyars) our ties with both Venetian and Roman families (Conti, maybe true Romans) do not come in times when we were some "great threat" to their possesions, on the contrary it was times of our struggles with Bulgarians and then east/SE expansion followed, so indeed looks like Italians "found true Romans" for a moment ) ...super interesting but just for old history lovers. On Dandolos it is suspected that it wasn't really one of "old families and initial founders" of Vinegia, which also makes it interesting to extent, in hypothessis, does they originate from else and their "sounding" is more characteristic for some other Italian regions than some last names of old Venetians etc.

one map of course not original and modern/computer work, dating roughly 100 years after DAI that kinda tried to explain some things.... Byzantines still in partial "denial" about Serbs and their origin, as it stayed through whole middle ages when they suspected ancient origin.... unimportant but cute teory again is that original Serbs were actually pushed from something like around today Morava valley and area around today Bulgar capital Serbica (as on map) west towards lands of Croats, language highly influenced by Slavic majority - but at first chance Serbs expanded east again, aiming Byzant and (in small extent) Bulgarian lands i.e. as "comeback", returned to more original "ekavian" and so on... it is all lovely, maybe even possible but generally i finished that subject which is good for "mysteries" parts... however you got another super story from Venetian history - Orsini and our unpleasant relations that culminated during Miluten and Philip IV, so i think it is worth knowing for all previous stories, maybe Venetian origin and from Ursus/Orso one beautiful and connected story which centers partially on Venetia.... beautiful, help me choose next subject and add but i finished, of course never telling all smaller details so there is always much more to add

btw, like also Thema of Langobardia by Byzantines in south Italy which is similar to Lombardy in north and is funny considering today, imagine if name survived

one of misconceptions, btw to say now or remain silent forever ) - is that modern Italian is "so" (to extent) different from Latin and you can find "better Latin" (examples and even dialiects like our) in various places from England, France to Serbia etc. is often said as because of "great violence, killings and rape of Italians" (which did happen sometimes but not that) but people often forget that Latin we know was literar language of "higher classes" i.e. military and adminstration as I already talked - and not necessarily all Italics spoke it (and had many similarities with Greek etc) nor used it as vernacular even in times when Kesars and Augustanus, Traianus etc. used it... so it is wrong to acuse Italians of not knowing "their Latin" as it was something spoken in Rome but not everywhere of "pijacas" ) already said - our words and ekavian is something closer than modern Italian as it continued on base that are Roman legions and administration, repeat... interestingly that once one of our local dialects accepted more modern Italian forms, not only on example of "Rascia" but also once there was pronounce in ours like modern Italian - chezar for our original kesar (we now say cezar) but also some our nationals said "Machedonia" instead Makedonia (used now) "Mochenigo" (used now) instead of Mokenigo for ship that brought Anna etc. many examples and is also lovely subject but enough for understanding.... btw, it also lead me sometimes to conclude that our "soft g, ch" is "italianism" and i insist that Italians could be soft on them regionally, but really unimportant who softened them first... gereally our ancestor Latins did not use them ; etc.

sometimes think, unrelated to previous para, that in our case it is all about symbolism as i also touched on examples of why HIM is in St Mark's, why Miluten (hopefully returned once) is "Serbica" (as first dominat ekavian etc), Temple for biggest church, Roman well on Felix site etc etc. to add also interesting symbolic thing - twice in history we acted under notion of liberators and "great comeback" after roughly 500 years (in XIII-XIV and XIX-XX c) like. Also like if we are all to return names of capital to founding names... like Singidunum for us, but we also "profit" in Bulgaria, as said capital which we founded and for example names of some capitals in German world would return to original name "Barbara Silva" just joking for the end, we and Germans are great pals and you only joke with great pals & best of all they enjoy our jokes.... never forget that both Fridrihs offered us their wives once upon a time ) ....as said, always join and help on some Italian topics, maybe i missed something ;

also seriously, again general impression is that back then "in dark" some people knew history much, much better than we thought for centuries (maybe French Capetans, approaching us first knew about Gaulish Serds etc) AND important repeat again that not all written in XIX or XX (for example) was "chauvinism" many things were actually right and cold historical truth, esp. in Italy.... as i demonstrated ancient and med history can be much "cooler" and fresh, even more connective and friendly with those we already had incredible friendly relations ) if told truthfully and if we give ourselves proper role, big Anna will solve it ) not to repeat phrase like Cato on Carthago..... or was it Plinius? Servius, can't be - so smart man.......

i think, btw, we are just one country and tribe/nation where "who control present control past, who control past control the future" example and saying happened already, so no need for any books or philosophy ....must say once you break the chains of any racist (son't mean white, black, yellow etc) thinking in a way "those are sisters as they are our race" and chains of religious divides in a way "those are our sisters just because of same religion i.e. sect" (as catholic/orthodox are not religions for example etc) you really liberate your mind in some way, crucial for historic looks and research. so we are also country that breaks those kind of stereotypes as we were so connected with not only "west" in times and almost had no huge, crucial war with any of them but (funny as said) we were involved in papal policies and Roman families ) So funny is when some our books write about some "hate from the left-hand map part" when in reality they often killed and ruined (even salted)) themselves more than they did to us, for example

hence interesting is that thing i mentioned clearly, that in Italian lands and (mainly but not only) among Serbs some "paganism" or "animalism/romanism" remained for so long, esp. funny for Italy country that (mainly) hosted popes and is often seen as some "arogant or warlike", maybe just because our pawns Dandolos we sent there out of nowhere quasi did some things to return to theme, seen in Cangrande, Orso names and our "Fuks" which we believed raised our old rulers )...it is maybe interesting for eventual Italian readers that such names are recorded in us much more frequently in later middle ages and not so much in our "kelia period" when rulers liked to call them Branus among other )....but it just becuase it wasn't so frequently recorded before doesn't mean it wasn't present like cult of "altomanus" ) and similar, just it became more frequent once ties with Italians deepened again in XII ; ...it is cute and another similarity among many

unrelated ti that but for today's themes like and noticed fate of that town Palestrina, we Latins initially named Preneste (which in our means "carry something"). So no idea why it changed name so "drastically" in the meds from original, was it more easier for Italians to pronounce... interesting is that, despite Dante's mentions and popular myth it is most likely not related to Kaius Iulius Kesar at all, but had many Roman locations and is connected with some other figures, but generally no Kesar so it is lovely story from Colonnas ; ....and, back to point, how some "Venetian" figures were involved twice in some 140 years in "razing and salting" of that small town, must have been very stubborn stronghold and nut for some First is as said Boniface himslef a "obscure" C-Gaetani but elected under doubtless watch of Orsini family and second time in 1430s by Venetian origin man pope Eugen (Gabriele originally) IV during some struggles in which Colonnas again found themselves on "receiving end" of papal stick ) so quasi Palestrina was razed again, Kesar's home again not spared etc. Pope Gabriele was elected under watch and main influence of Orsini main cardinal, maybe just like Boniface long before and it just succeeded first Colonna pope ever hardly elected after long tries, details for lovers..... must say of course despite lovely stories that just becuase someone was "Venetian" doesn't mean that whole Vinegia and all Venetians were "behind him" and that Dogos supported them, as seen on example of our Dandolo dogos that were closer to "our factions"... so i'm not blaming Venice, just noticed and is lovely for history lovers, sister... so it is noticeable that both our and French faction supported some maybe "more Roman" daction (Colonnas) against some "more Venetian" faction of Orsini, lousely said. Doubt it is just "ghibellineism" behind as above all French Capets and Miluten close to Clement, figured as some "guelph" figures in Italy, and why i say it is all quasi and nicely masked.... so wanted to point to another interesting detail, town of old Preneste and it's often "punchings" ;..... how it relate/translate to us in contemporary times (and leave Miluten aside while connected) - well again our rulers i.e. Stefan and George (losely) supported Colonna pope and his actions and when it changed to "Orsini faction" pope during George, it seems that he wasn't supportive of some Eugene's IV actions etc. so Preneste/Palestrina had to suffer again lovely, worth knowing as all if you are intersted in period history always add and correct me from there i'm trying to be detailed and truthful but if i presented some details from your country history wrongly i'm ready to retract and repent incredible like subject and it just "erupted" from me to present all this ;

sometimes artists of later times - maybe unintentionally and under their "artistic zeal" or some quasi romantism - presented things wrong and really mistyfied or better said relativized or made them funny or a bit caricatured (not to use harsher word)... like on this example from French (!) artist and illustrator from XIX c etc, unimportant per se and there are many examples, mantionable i noticed on many "romantism" paintings of "Vespers" and so on... famous "pap-slap" ) in example, clearly dear Sciarrillo as we close to him called Giacomo Colonna is presented as some hooligan at best, armed and dangerous with "thugs" and not man knowing and reading Aristotle and Servius for example of great thinkers while "poor" Boniface is unarmed man with cross and clear victim and not someone guilty (if Miluten and Philip would give him fair trail) of today we would say genocide ....on second example i.e. "Vespers" do not have any opinion and of course i'm not for French rule of any part of Italy etc etc. but just mentioned it as example of "romantism art" and quasi narratives that penetrate minds for long etc..... IDK, coming back to my subject and Colonnas, really would like to hear from you and similar - think subject is one of the greatest in history as i said many times, and if unpleasant for many of you I'm ready to say that Sciarra (nick meaning "scarf") acted on Miluten's orders... maybe noone was completely right but nonetheless again story is great and is one of pillars of our history of the times directly touching and influencing our peak rulers, and almost duty to defend Columnas ....Nogaret wasn't maybe even there and i'm last man to defend him )

again, detail that i evaded and in defense of Vinegia as said (ingredient on every side of story & not just because they were versed with salt)) is that even "our dear" Sciarrillo died ultimately in Venice, presumed as guest of Dandolo family in year when Francesco took doge position and as said family was very close to our Dandolos, Petrarca to Andrea, Andrea to HIM etc. Nice story again and we were close to epicentre of continental events, doesn't matter who was right, important is that our pawns Dandolos in no way ashamed "intellectual world" or better said anyone close to them ; ....let it be last call to some eventual Italian history lover, preferably masked serenissima, really interested how you rate own events and dying about every further detail you can provide me on it and all i talked maybe insufficiently informed etc. of course nothing is easy but kinda needed to present one instantly known story, and if you did not know our peak rulers were very involved in it... not so crucial also to appeal that false lines about HIM must stop for example for historical truthness, obviously he was "pen-pal" of Petrarca myths about Miluten as well etc. again, lovely story and not about us, interested how you see it, any detail or some of your own story that you like etc...... but not gonna happen ) but better than empty pub, calculated I'll attract younger generations with this haaaha...

10 out of 10 grade for our story, 3-4 countries and few figures/houses including our took me many years to connect all, including Eco's doctorate, but i guess i finally got closer, guess it was so masked that one can't never hit center of "meta" but that is why it is lovely, isn't it ;....nobody was right, underlining it and tempest, plague and earthquake that struck Venice says enough about its central role on both sides and how Jupiter rated it ...but not give her "superpowers", well into XII c they chased tribute pigs over main pijaca ) and had quite few illiterate but rich Dogos well after Orso - somethin unimaginable then for us in civilized Rascia

hey hey, forgot to write in already many words also this.... well word "shara" or "shar-mountain" etc. is another Italianism in our language (it has different use except "scarface" here) but really many as said, so many that you would never guess how many we have from sisters ) italian and latin words dominate in our

admit i did some "looks" last evening on theme i mentioned myself, so might be interesting.... i always say and will always repeat that (along history as proven)) lingustics and history or word forms is very, very slippery field and there are equally many wrong or "overstreched" conclusions that maybe are not even close to truth...

so i looked at page of "Shar mountain" also but also in wiktionary (demonstrated as inaccurate on many examples) and even if that example is not from Italian used word of "shara" it doesn't matter as Serbo-Croat (i prefer to use also Serbo-Latin due to our mentioned ekavinisms and hard pronounces historically) use indeed word "shara" (sciara, -arra) in diferent meanings as separate - and in meaning both for "non-straight line" (for example in painting) but also as something with diverse colors BUT also as something similar to Italian (or Sicilian) toponym use (on Stromboli i seen) i.e. as some "stream, trench, furrow" so it is questionable as besides that mountain, word is present separately as just told. Even one epic hero (well-known to Gabriele, poor kid and his demanding school)) rode horse "Shara-c" where "c" is added as masculine gens or it would be "Sciarra", while not saying that he rode Giacomo and so on, you get it...

wiktionary is fun and not sure what is behind Italian word "shara" and why would Roman, not Sicilian, family member use it, for example... says maybe Arabic origin meaning "fight, brawl" not used in our as meaning, but there is sometimes word used "shorka" for fight in our... however our "shara" is most similar to "thrench, stream or line that stands out from surrounding" again etc. lovely subject as all..... you know, many things are "controversial" from our side of Adriatic, bit like why would Italians record in XV c "Molise Croats" singing to Serb ruler George "golden fork" and dancing Latin kolo, Croats rarely dance but doesn't matter, maybe Croats liked our George you get idea why it is sometimes fun....

unrelated in any way but as it was on page as anagram of "sciara" found this wiktionary link on "rascia" (unimportant per se) and by following links we get some further guesses on what "rascia" as dressing detail meant for Italians, something i dealt with.... so it could be in English use explain of "pall" many things but somehow sense is again that it was indeed some cloak, mantle (why they stresses "black rascia") but even other things... but in cloak or mantle meaning page says that it usually was purple - so don't say me that cardinals wore "rascia", would explain Colonna and others ties with us ....again lovely and bit enigmatic subject, but could be concluded roughly that it was also either cloak or long mantle "rascia" Venetians started to wear, together with our masks ) later in honor of us ;... our ancestors were some sexy conspirators obviously would explain why would we send Dandolos (nobody heard of before) out of nowhere to rule Vinegia for broken 150 years in our interest etc etc.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/rascia#Italian

great subjects for lovers if not so important today when we are flying "Anna D." in space etc. Must sayagain 1000x thanks to Italians for preserving some details, even in some chaotic way wouldn't be surprised if once some letter of Petrarca to HIM surfaces or Milten's orders to Sciarraand Philip in some dark kellar or kelia of some Italian church...... despite many humor, i say very many details of truth and facts, but always add from there and correct ;

....and always mind, touched it but how could forget in previous post, that both our "Serbian" but also "Italian" (i wrote both that way not becuase they are quasi but because they are both summs of various regionals) went through "transformation" on such examples like "sciara" or "rascia" as hard Latin (influeced by Greek, borin to repeat) so some older pronounces and soundings were probably "rasc/kia" and maybe "skiara" not with "sh" at all if you get it, just forgot.... too unimportant but lovely in a way to further investigate all form that could mean "skia" in Latin and Etruscan etc. but worth nothing that maybe initially in "both ours" it maybe did not sound like "shhh-" word ;

Brits were in a sense right to related some "Draculian look" to region, while maybe it was more south than Transylvania, but they all looked at each other including Venice in times.... maybe that black cloak is initially ours but hardly that Serbs invented cloaks (and face hidding for example)) as we have records of them being wore by Romans, maybe even Celts (strangely both connected distantly to us) but maybe some colors and combinations that even to Italians looked "sexy" or attractive

indeed our nobility (on scarce and unpreserved completely sources) wore cloaks although later frescos as old rulers (in some Byzant style which doesn't mean that rulers looked like that at all, just "imperialistic" and religious depiction) do not show them with coaks etc. Surely present motive in clothing, maybe rarer in Greece so they stand out etc. Talked enough and subject is super as many.... young prince Miluten with motive of cloak indeed

while this is not our only not invention ) (maybe just some late XIV colors that looked dark on nobility and it was very costly process to properly blacken clothes but they had money)) i think it is clear to all with fairminded that our history went through excessive "hijacking" and "culturocide", but doesn't matter that much really i think that even for distant Brits, let alone close Italians enough is preserved to even try to reconstruct role and importance of our figures or relatively truthful consequence of events ...for us is most important fairness

It is one mama-huge Miluten (but cute when young isn't he)) but just linked to wiki pics, which usually resize but this one is huge for post

anyway, to say also this, and as a way to spread a bit story (which honestly wasn't their and finishes around Hungary north, parts of England etc. all in Sigi & Colonna initial "faction" while they later recieved some others like Poles etc etc) to some other peoples and today nations, from prospective I explained and talked about, just on surface and not trying to be to deep - things basically date centuries before, was Italian thing, we were involved, Germans to extent, Capets instrumental etc. not to repeat

but to spread as i touched and it is already late stage that lost sense that culminated during Philip, Miluten, Louis of Hungary and HIM later and of course Vinegia and all mostly northern Italians, Cangrande, Dante and Petrarca ) ....so, point, Hussites and Hus, Czech rebellion etc. Wasn't seen so much as just heresy as, as talked many times and maybe even you concluded we, all involved, sticked "etiquette" or better said stamp (as first words means something else in Frank) of heresy to evryone of us so to me will always be funniest HIM's try to acuse for heresy main Athos prior, Greek etc ) but there are many funny heresies we sticked around to eachother if you guess... it is more likely that Hussites presented threat to that imagined "imperial order" and why even progressive Colonnas had to react like that, shortly and simply said, but if it makes you feel better Palestrina or Preneste suffered a lot lovely stories, i here just simplified to include others as well, but i repeat it was different time, much different from when it was really, really fun - XIII until some disappearance of both Nemanides, Dandolides in office and Capets... after that a bit different and "watered" story only Sigi tried to revitalize a bit but unsucessfully in the long run... so how such movement as Hussite one was percieved, not just heresy, term with sticked a lot. just imagine how many times Vinegia was sold as "unchristian" etc.

really like all, so i added this, not so important to previous things, but as a way of explaining Colonna pope motives and "our faction" in even such late and directly unrelated events.... so like some thoughts on Dante, masked ghibelline then if you say, but also Petrarca, Dandolo friend and albeit being quasi "fond of Dante" and his father frend of Dante - Italians explained well that actually he disagreed with him on many things and had different views, so close with Avignon, Capets (who died out during life) and indirectly our rulers and Dandolos ; The end for now.

the reason why he was so handsome is of course not his "rugged" papa (although Anna was best beauty ever) but of course his mater 'Elen of "St Louis" IX incredible woman, most photoed ever back then (sadly often with covered head etc) enough said about her... Miluten, more than Draguten, was "spitted out" her as we say.... when looking at him on photo, btw, could imagine some state council in time of taking photosome 1270s or before, with maybe French/Capet ambassador present as guest among others and subject of what to to now is topic. Draguten speaks first and then Miluten takes the word and starts: "we must arrest Michael VIII, we must bulid hospitals, we must go to Jerusalem, we must move the pope to France etc" and all impressed, esp. ambassador ) and so on...

let's today for lovers stay on that fresco, from same place as "white angel" btw. What you think, is that purple (many centuries pass and colors lie) "toga" (not really but is Roman like dressing, but it is more cloak) first of all... maybe. In Rome only consuls and imperators could wear it etc. To say also that i'm not expert on all that, more political history and conspiracies, so might make some mistakes while know few things.... in contrast to ancient world, except Roman colors for few if purple (btw, they say that actually Etruscans introduced purple in Rome, Servius kind) he wears "Celtic" long sleeved tunic with golden ornaments. Second it is Celtic way of connecting cloak they say, with "brosh", "schnala" as we say etc. But while true for ancient times in meds it wasn't so true as vearious styles spread around so even Italians wore it, and wasn't some tribal style anymore ...but just few intersting words since it looks ancient styled on pic, unimportant of course, free to correct...

also was thinking few times about that simple and short line in eng-wiktinary about "rascia" clothing - funeral. Like them or not but Brits hit it, center again (like on few exemples) in short way... "funeral pall" with further link to "pall" (which is Roman and Greeks used word in variant) etc. But "funeral" part is striking, so i'm thinking that fashion was rather for them as a way of mourning for us i.e. most important country of time it was long mourn, few centuries and almost whole western Europe mourned us, so touching and kissable, cuties ) indeed maybe it was that symbolically for them rather than just "i'm rich or elegant" statement, nice story and thanks but few days or months mourn would be enough ....to continue, then we are officially dead for them all and must stay so ...humors aside, must say really crossed my mind as idea why Eng authors used such simple line, nobody connected "rascia" to directly funeral robeso thumbs up.... anyway, they say, not my theory and deep knowledge again, that "dark toga" was also Roman funeral custom, but indeed they rarelly or never used pure black, just dark iirc... that much for today regarding subject to think about for lovers, always let me know what you think or like, as said many times all history lovers here....

pardon, not from same place i.e. church as "angel" just style ...even better with my mistake, it was wider theme of the times and not just one master artist and location... pardon again

I mean really, really would like to know - which E-history lover of meds wouldn't but for us would be revolutionary, but generally for continent great story.... thanks to some "daring French" for theory, i'm kinda recently obsessed with it of course and to be not so much about St Louis person ) but how great respect would it be to directly marry (maybe even illegitimate, hence hidden on both sides wink, wink) Capet king of France to Rascian ruler, but half Dandolo always mind that Venice despite size and not so big "culture and powers" then was important and too well known to Capets for few centuries - so theoretically such marriage could be arranged for Serbia, just because it could not be arranged for both France (as princess was demanded) nor Venice,as republic so third party was required.... Logically 100% correct way of thinking and theory which is not baseless at all if you think properly, so to anyone in the west France, Italy, Germany and omni-present Brits etc. who thought about it as true, big thumbs up - as said i connected it properly and generally support it.... but sadly book will never be written about it as is now, nor we can go to public with it as docs and ties are "pedantly" ruined or masked.... big sadness for us meds history lovers. Which doesn't mean that eventual daughter of "Latin emperor" is small and "disrespectful" thing, but again for some of us as explained sounds more probable, and "illegitimate" of "saint" might add some demand for hiding, but think it is not that, was ruined maybe unintentionally or intentionally - maybe by Templar avengers ...ahhh, makes me want to break something it is so great free to share or retell to some lovers.... Louis was of enough age and maturity for her birthtime (who knows which as demonstarted on many examples in "official history") but also it fits in a way that Capets liked "Greek region" (unlike our elite then)) names so many Philips etc. but - tadaaa - of many daughters Louis had, Helen just misses and would fit simply too lovely again not for figure only but for direct tie with French king... but sad, sad flik for us all.... maybe not Napoleon, hey easy on him

anyway, noticed that i made mistake when talked previously about her - and named future wife of "St" Blanche (sexy name btw), it was Margaret of course all knowers know 0 Blance was mather and one daughter..... but hey we are talking French here just joking more than beautiful story, pure something to makes you feel great but sad... would like to talk more but how, long and harsh winters..... must say again and boring repeat, in last few years i really talked many "stupids" on history (but admit if you read some posts from past, that i had clear doubts and told some things insecurely)) based on totally wrong narratives, contemporary French deserve big pardon again... and again if it was "only" someone from Charles line or Baldwin's, not the end of world, but "stinks" of main Capet indeed, so i'm glad that i could also add from our side that huge similarities i.e. almost copying things Miluten did.... always mind, why not if Enrico ("worldwide famous" then) could marry into our family (not to mention previous Byzantine emperors etc) why not ruling French king ; ...French, like Venetians were not so "far, far above us" in fact as some small respect details later show etc. Lovely, magical for us mediavalists but again - sadly you know...

to today also explain this for lovers, see that Wiki is "sh*t" as ever (not so bad often)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinar

it is said - and indeed is illiogical why would Serb state use "Arabic word" since start of XIII which article doesn't mention why it could be logical for some steates in E-Spain and Portugal but not Serbia of the time ; - so it is said that it is not form Arabic or any similar language here but they say that one of neo-Greek dialects called well-known Roman coin "dinarion" as well as old-Greek "denarion"... indeed raises question why would we use, as growing "ekavians" in time and old Latinists actually "ikavian" form for money, and question is in place. Just explained, our name is not from any middle eastern nor Arabic, more likely from Dalmatian "ikavian" (which is or was majority diealect there, but they are in tries to make "unified Croatian" etc,not my field, but "ikavian" is their characteristic) Byzant ruled Dalmatia maybe longer or more deeply than ekavian Rascia, and why, btw, some more "ikavian" forms could be found in early Venice as i noted - also subject of Byzant... i don't know all forms, but again it is said that "neo-Greek" used form "dinarion", and from there and Dalmatia it entered and stayed in our. Legitimate question, so not from Arabic definitely but not so important

nice that i touched who likes, while this isn't many words of "Arabic" origin people believe are from "Ottoman" in ours actually entered our language before that and directly via our "participation" in crusades as i said before... sucj examples are probably "papagay" for parrot, "majmun" (often seen on Venetian pics, btw so we asked them how they call them) for monkey etc etc, quite few examples predating "Ottoman" and we had for centuries also library and monastery in Jerusalem... we were among crusading states, what to do now conclusion - "dinar" in our is from "neo-Greek" and "Dalmatian", and many words of eastern origin actually predate Turks for centuries

another word for "dinar" it comes into use more frequently (although often not even used by us as name every time) since round Anna Dandolo times, her son started bigger emissions that were maybe even of more doubtful silver percentage and grammage than when it reached "boom" during Miluten which really overflow Italy but also whole Medditareanean to extent - and it wasn't principally as explained about his silver ratio as Venetians "whined" it was "fear of Miluten" as maybe direct Capet close to French rulers and pope Clement... silver ratio was as said quasi 7/8 of Venetian grosso etc. More political background Dante skillfully (maybe) satirized etc.

question of Draguten and Miluten, saying more for our western readers and why insist, is one of more complex and "difficlut" in our history of the time and i really hope that some of my lines are helpful... i again repeat that using logic is more cruscial than any sources or narrative so let it be my "method".... loked also at Draguten page (not so controversial and funny as holy Miluten in Eng) but also has some contradictions and clear absence of logic AND again somehow absence of findings and more than important looks at Italy.... in few places it is in clear contradiction with itself and (for not so important example) tells once that "majority of Serb nobles sipported Draguten" while on other it says that "Serb magnates were with Miluten".... or like how Miluten used, citing Hungarian and omni-present American John Fine (who had some good lines btw, but huge misses as well honestly) "eastern even Turkic mercs against Draguten" while some our more modern historian properly noted that "during clash with brother he used mainly Italians and asked Clement i.e. anything of Papal states, maybe Colonnas without naming etc".... "sadly" for many and again it is confirmed that Miluten was in close touch with Clement (openly stating that his brother "was other side" to his envoys) and sources, graves, even novels in Italy confirm big number of Italians in Miluten's armies It is change to Orsini faction and pope Jacques actually that put "Miluten on ice" probably but not only him, even some German emperors, French crown to extent etc, as connected...

i say million times truth about Miluten - also as one who facilitated European events to extent like arrest of Michael VIII, cooling down "Vespers" crisis etc etc. is really crucial. As well as about HIM, and "strangely" both codes of them and many sources did not survive in original (Milten's not at all even) making them "defenseless and speechless" in a way Best and maybe more/most western connected kings in our era history i'd say.... truth is that Byzant never trusted not liked him him, despite tries to picture jim as some "Byzantine i.e. eastern minded king" (which is maybe only true in times when papa Jacques took the office and he was already over 60 haha and far from "old Miluten" Capet) and regarding forces he commanded it is not logical that 2-3 years eralier Miluten (on Byzant demand i.e. plead for help) "crushes harshly Turkic advance maybe even in Asia Minor" and few years later as those "historians" note "uses Turkic mercs" for really unimportant example... like Dushan, Miluten forces included more western knights for truth. So you get it why it is complex, and very glad i could even on surface explain his ties with Colonna family, Capets, other Italians and his moves that directly "play chess" in Italy with likes of Cangrande... he reached Jerusalem in year when Philip IV (i accept, his ally in sense) pledged to go there too etc etc. Really, really hope that soon time comes to write more truthful (while nobody knows every letter or envoy kept secret through whole continent let alone on very conspiratory here)) history abou "holy king" Miluten and why it was considered as such in the west as well, and HIM Dushan... all neigbouting nations must cooperate in it. As is now, we are just supporting mythomania and lies... while surely even anything theoretically we say (my faction) is not provable 100% what some others often say is simply and plainly illogical ) .....glad that i presented 100% correct dates of rule and influence of Dandolo dogos as well, as i think it is important, fits in every our important moment as said ;... it is 2024 so time for some honesty and mutual try to even on surface write it right or closer to truth...

regarding "St Louis" and his theoretical daughter ; (best story ever) I see that Eng page accepts that older Draguten was born in (quasi) 1244 and Miluten hence was almost 10 years younger..... BUT it says that it is not known and that age is just fantasy based on some archbishop writting "that he was of age to carry weapons" ) (simplified) and historian guessed that in 1264 he was "around 20" which is just guess and far, farfrom fact ....also, BTW, like that it mentiones Charles Capet (Louis bro) in contact with Draguten - if you can use logic, where on earth it says thatCharles liked his brother ; and might be seed of disagreement or conflict between our brothers as well, think about it lovely what else to say - it is important to connect Morosini family (they say realted distantly with Orosini) of Venice with maybe different camp of Dandolos which forced or encouraged Miluten's takeover etc, but we will not repeat as is talked above.... Miluten, the end, recruited in Treviso (but also Bologna and across Italy) and mind that during Gradenigo doge with laws against him - in times when Treviso was fighting both Cangrande and Venice as well ;... you get some picture thanks to me and likes - again for our history very diffivult question and "masked and ruined" as many Think Anna, Helen, Miluten and HIMare pillars of some "progressive side" (or paradoxlly for those fed by false narratives, more western faction or more pan-continental) but we cannot prove all. I like them all - 200-300 meters statues needed and demanded really always would like line or idea from those "Romanic states", they are about romantism and love as seen on "Vespers" example seriously, if able always help i.e. throw some line, but not expecting anything anymore except that you said it all by wearing "rascia" too long for our death questions are, i'd say continentally interesting so i included you all in stories

few more things for lovers and for probable end... i mean it is obviously interesting, containing many details that deserve second-third etc look and similar and since we are talking most important country of the era and grandkids of St Lou and grandkids of Anna, herself grandcutie of Enrico - of course interesting and demanded by all on continent ; ....mustsay first i do not get it how that quasi fell of horse and broken leg prevented Draguten being king from then, but atthe same time he successfully rode and participated in campaigns both with Miluten in Greece (same year of abdication), against "Bulgarian" lords but also as writen by himself and Hungarian allies or without them, rampaging some Magyar held lands etc. etc. So if we are to be realistic - whole story indeed stinks doesn't it "broken leg" but really what to say, obviously it raised suspicion more internationally so it is close to what i'm saying i.e. some deal "holy one" to take from there - maybe just as i said as having good ties and lands on Byzant border promptly "arrest" Michael and force him to strart writing aoutbiography really funny detailbut we laughed about it enough...

also like how - just insecurely and shy it mentiones how Helen was (quasi) against Anna's son Uroscio war against Ragusa, while his personal page says how she was "instrumental in war against it, even inspiring it etc" so be smart after ; ...it was roughly times when Ragusa accepted more Venetian "vassalisation" but also not so far from paying us and sending troops etc. what you think, what of two options would be more likely for Helen Capet and in interests of both Louis (still alive then) and Charles, or you think it is more likely that Baldwin's line was behind? lovely becuase it is again contradiction on 2 pages ; but also not important - we will not give foreign queens any "huge powers" (just kisses) and like they are "behind all" and to add of pure example why would Helen had anything to do with her son overthrow of her husband etc. ...or you think... ; well then....and more likely that some our 2 meter nobles had more prominent role in events, then 2 of them but i want to believe that both were important, esp. Anna for 50 years of durability.... also btw, like as seen small and important detail that after Draguten "was forced" to give Helen own land - it was Miluten that provided entourage and company for her to go there etc. Considering all, frequent clashes and "civil" and other wars, it really is extraordinary how 2 of them endured and were unattacked for long here, btw

also detail, it would make Draguten in 1276 when he rose against papa half-Dandolo Urosh, some "32" which is almost "too old" for then (but not impossible indeed) as usually nobility waited "young kings" (prince) to reach some "around 20" to support him against paps, so Anna's son was maybe 25 at most (i imagined him older in one post if we accept some theory that Anna came here earlier), Dushan maybe only 19 (if we accept he was born in 1312, it is based on idea that our king named them "young kings" as title at 14 or 16 - so even 1310 - as his father named him in 1326, but maybe not rule) etc.... this is also not too important in general, but in our case powerful nobles and foreign (Dandolo)) agents looked prince to be younger and easily "advised", but really who knows - can you put your hand in fire when Louis was born etc. ;......but this is just personal thinking aloud and of course that any age is "legal or possible" for prince to start war with father )

to say also this for readers on the left-hand side of map ) that both Miluten and HIM Dusciano (talked so much about it, even totally undeservedly for HIM touching even Benito, who was only kid in times.....)) are recorded in offices of both Clement V and then ruling (and not so important maybe for continental history) Innocent VI (not-guilty Etienne, aka) who coincide with sending of Pierre Thomas and HIM's death - as two Serbian kings (Vatignon did not recognize him emperor title unlike Byzantines so he had to also declare himslef "firsborn of Christ" for further prestige)) who openly offered "union with catholic church", so it is funny also if you guess ....it was in reciprocity for some other deed from their side (HIM wanted to be captain, Miluten something, maybe president of North Italy etc)) ....irrelevant how honest offer was, and surely calculated but funny as fact that they offered it, in 2024 not so important and religion lostmuch sense for us all (except billions))

so you get it why they both are in some mist or denial and few lies had to be thrown on them, but what to do, it was different times than XVIII, XIX, and XX c people thought differently and there was not so much hate nor they ever touched us, let alone salted us ) .....simply, wherever you sit, in Belgrade, Venice, "isle-of-France" or now popular Mars or on Uranus considering lots of jobs and easy visa access, you cannot write our history of the times without looking at Italy and France, even German lands to extent but not much as two first are those that had "relatives" in our kings (in the west)..... unrelated, let's laugh again together at Stefan "who crushed Sigi" and in return Sigi grants him towns, influence and asks him first on questions ; - while Sigi was the one known as "easy on sword" and "killing around" those who he seen as threat so of course things must stop once, think 700 and 600 years after is enough

also as only, despite older brother, carrying nick "holy/saint king", also one confirmation from Eng page on Draguten - SU II, Miluten really - so indeed could be speculated that "line continued with him" (despite alive and well older brother) by consensus from all (except poor Byzant) and maybe never had "horse riding incident" but not so important and what to do now, as i said nobody was "maybe" completely right, but you know - to paint "papal slap" and "Vespers" so "anti-Serb" toned is not right......... great subject and don't mind humor, i'm gravely, "rascialy" serious about many things, i really hope all liked

as said there are indeed million details as "conversation strater" with my numerous Romantic readers ) and not every is important for history, but think this is enough about that page for all liking ; ...expecting your participation just any time )

yeah, i forgot to mention and why laugh (among many other "historical" things not only on this story) on questions of Helen is that Wiki "accepts" that Draguten was born around 1244 (explained why maybe unlikely) and at same time it "accepts" that Helen herself was born around 1235 ; ..... so gave birth arounf 9? common historians really must get their acts together on such subjects, surely one of two not true (while not impossible even such "shocking" mama date) BUT, slow down - nor close to truth and again some 10-15 years lost or "eaten" by following fake sources and guess by historian "when they carried weapons" etc. It is funny, to me more likely that Helen "circa" birth is right (St Louis would be around 21 then, wink) but she probably did not marry "rugged" at 8 and gave birth at 9, explain.... Draguten, if we disregard total fantasy of his quasi birth date and accept more probable date and closer to Miluten's birth (who was born in 1253 or 1254) so maybe year-two earlier - so Helen (we again know nothing for sure about) was close to 20 - there was no logical sense that our royal couple make whole 10 years pause between first and second child, as "historiography" fakely accepted (or part of it). So this would be true, Draguten not much older than Miluten and mother around and over 20 in time of birth - important to say to prevent quasi "pedophilia" fakely imported with lines ; ....while amazing theories about eventual ties with St Louis remain intact by this logical and true change - 10 years pause again not realistic for couple ; so Louis was over 20 in time of Helen born etc. it fits but it is just theory which fits in both of chatracter, doings and nickname of both, but also strange tendency from them to "respectfully avoid" our possessions once Helen arrived etc.... really forgot in previous 2 posts to mention that funny dates inconcrete and why it was not true that Drag was 10 years older and Helen so young mother ; ...fake year in king's case, but i did say that just did not give "what wiki says about Helens birth date".... it is matrix to also maybe fakely acuse our kings, same is myth about Miluten who 4 older wives etc... also Enrico died, by some, "very old" some say even around 80, but even if it is 70, it makes Anna surely around 20 at least even in time of his (quasi accepted) death in 1204 and even older later, and so on.... while surely "pedophilia" was present and spread broader, not here - it is myth, as I explained our rulers did not crown their oldest sons before 14 or 16 so i doubt that they slept with girls before some similar age etc. Nobility did not have "very young wives" in general, when you look further ... but why to waste so many words - as told whole fun is based on totally wrong guess of Draguten (oldest of them) birthdate, free to add 8-9 years to that, he was not much older that "holy".... Byzantines, often also accused very much for "pedophilia" by others, did try to even "pack" to Dushan some quasi daughters and quasi offerings - he probably never had etc

and so on, great subject, thanks for theories... strangely or not - see that even date of Helen's birth do fit in Louis IX marriage with Margaret, so no need to be "illegitimate" at all - and that they had "daughters who died at infancy", maybe one was Helen .... it is lovely indeed, but instead focusing on that think i nicely rounded Helen's age and true Draguten birthdate so at least 8-9 years later than wiki and funny historian mentioned.... always say, use your brain sometimes, even Helen really could be anyone, hard to make any conclusions based on "one letter or visit from Naples etc" as it proves nothing. Same in relation to Stefan probably not even being at Nicoplolis, HIM not having that line, and Miluten as one "liked by Helen" and in good ties on "the boot" etc etc. People do not even notice how uncompared and often illogical things they write and present as some narrative, often based on something totally unbased like line (again) by bishop, who himself never wrote how old Draguten was in 1264 but historian quasi "concluded" ) etc.

OR - indeed and crossed my mind and is legit theory if supported - Draguten was NOT son of Helen at all, so even wiki like on his parents is divided in part where it says that it was oldest son of king "Rugged" and other part of sentence where it is added that he was also son of Helen, citing different historians on diff parts of same sentence - cleverly ...would explain why SU II was only with that name, more followers, stronger, the one to give protection to Helen etc. more legit for crown and in the end whose sons continued.... in that way, Draguten halfbrother and just maybe here - tadaaa - illegitimate son of the Urosh the Rugged ; ...lovely and possible if that is what is hidden between lines and between events that favorised Miluten, understood. In a way, if that is true events & while still support Miluten ) of course feel sorry to extent to Draguten as he of course considerd him self "firstborn".... yep, it seems like root of conflict and his tries to start war he couldn't win, against already made decission... lovely.

that much on that "complex" question in our history, now looks less complex and one of most demanded by all ...it is BTW for our history lovers repeating theme in our time i.e. same century.... twice prince who was son of foreign princess won in some struggles against half-brothers and started own line, same is with Anna's son. Incredible how respectful our surely tough nobility was towards those foreign princesses and respected that younger should make own line or indeed they were so well guarded by professional troops

for end - but always invite for some your story - checked some sources for Pippo Spano or "Scolari" Florentine "condottiere" and later Hungarian nobleman in strict Sigismund service... indeed he wared against Venice extensivelly and quasi with some harshnes, captured them etc. And indeed was present in Serbia few times on Stefan L. request so it is not myth, he took part in some unnamed battles..... why saying, well to see how true is Stefan's hostility with Venice and what are chances that Elena Gattilusio was very real and present as Genoese faction, seems likely by these fact alone.... but generally nothing more on that storyand it was "watered time and story" compared to earlier when it was "fun" ), mentioned just btw as some confirmation..... it is always, maybe since Enrico times some Colonna presence that could be related to us, it is almost unmissable, even during George when Colonnas again opposed popes, as George... we almost gravitated closer to Venice (George was close) or colder with it, almost in measurable relation Colonnas had with Venice, amazing.... and Italy in mid XV and near our end - Colonnas are again mentioned in some cooperation with named/certain memebers of Conti families etc.... that much, almost rule as said, glad i gave it atention... how not to like, but nobody right not to bore, if you ever have something similar of liking, join us

generally - why not adding to stories - Miluten's decision to further place some "court" (we i.e. royal house did not have some capitals a la Paris again) as well as Helen is not related to any ethnic reasons nor so much religious, it is merely as i see it, strategic decision as i also see it "to be closer to directly (but not securely nor often firmly)) ruled Capetian i.e. quasi Angevin "Albania") Durazzo/Drach/Dures etc. how called was their main port and in times after that marriage with Helen, esp. reign of Miluten etc. it could be seen also as place to recieve rainforces from or as a place to "flee if need be" (which never happened) and was more trustable than Dalmatian ports (today Montenegro etc) we had but that could be easier blockaded or threatened by Venice or others. In that light could be seen also his prompt action in Durazzo and fast retake from Byzant even though initial threat was over for him and Michael 8 Paleologos dead, Kavala action gave results etc etc. He had to take this port later even though he had no intent to keep it maybe, Dushan never even approached it....that's how i see why some state and courts moved in that direction in the times, not ethnic nor religious reasons in some way if you get it, but closenes to "Capet port"... Dushan is different story althogether and he chosen Skop(l)je, some Macedon in general (although dubious how much Greeks considered it original "Macedon", more Kavala) for many reasons... one it's strategic position "in middle of state" but could be speculated that Dushan, as obviously well read since young age, with entry to maps and libraries in Constant, and very versatile with both Latin and Greek, indeed knew both about Justinian and similar, but also ancient stories of Serds and so on, maybeso it was "some return" speculatively said... ; btw, Sofia not interesting but could be poss theory, but more than interested in Miluten back to his land ;

anyway, history of families in the times is certainly more important than other ascpects of political activity maybe or surely, so i tried to connect, in fitting way must say, both Conti, Colonnas (Este sometimes) but directly our Dandolos and it more than fits to be ignored so i think events enfolded on easy tracable matrix when you connect them..... as fun fact since mentioned is that Gabriele in his poem has so many "hidden messages" but he also has few places where he wrote "Colonnas, Colonna" albeit not aiming family directly nor relating to it at all (aiming Trajanus, but realted to us and also as possible source of Columna family name) but is fun how he cries that name few times ; so i always say Italians had some details and knowledge. Anyway, on my mind is, purely btw, why did Pippo "Spano" had that nickname as he obviously wasn't from these areas, was born near Florence and then moved in Hungary (funny Wiki says already in his 13th year when he gained function in Hungary, hardly true as well but anyway))

but his true family Buondelmonti degli Scolari is (not on his line obviously) connected to region and mentioned in Greece, Epirus since times of Dushan's empire... it is also btw, mentioned in notes (not always his) going with Gabriele poem but also in proper historiography. Member of that family, which was relatively poor and unnoticed in Florence, came to lands following Dushan's death and desintegration of his empire... had few wives and among them one of ex-Dushan noble, also petty and small in HIM's time "having only one village in posession" and maybe Dushan even never heard for them... but after that they become stronger and were later known as "lords of Zeta" - Balshich family.... most likely family i.e. thatsmall lord during our state Balsha was of Albanian origin, shouldn't be controversial as our contemporary sources clearly call them "Albanian lords"... similar is also "Spani or Spano etc" (Greek, Albanian etc) family active later in area so i'm guessing, as it was more famous than Buondelmonti degli Scolari ) he was known by that name (also shorter indeed) although maybe having no tie with that branch of family, as he was born in Venice long before that eventsand probably before mentioned 1369... if family had any other previous ties with region or some Alban families, not known to me, but how i see his nick as "Spano" was more famous then etc. Interesting is that Pippo is painted in times in some house/villa in Florence (as seen in Wiki, not to pretend i'm art history expert)) and with description in Latin "Philippus Hispanus etc." so are they somehow related with E-Spain or region is IDK ...but of course Spanish were active in both Byzant and (quasi as we in concrete do not have much sources) in our empire, some our relics ended in Spain etc.... generally i could talk only from that perspective and why he was known by that last name while in person not much relation and activity in Epirus, Albania or similar. So it just raised personal interest and desire to tell few details, of course if you know more on this story as well and why he was known as "Spano" despite lacking tie with that family, alwys join and say, i just tried to think aloud and said what i know, because found it interesting detail... painter who made that pic of him (and many others) is one who inspired "last supper" by Leonardo, they say. BTW, always like that subject and really how much we knew before "renaissance", how much of our works are predating it in some ancient themes but also did our rulers were indeed connected with later Italian renaissance figures directly, did Petrarca like Dante discussed our events etc, did our finance and ties helped it to extent etc. lovely but for art history lovers, we take only credits for political deeds like successfully and peacefully combining Capets and Dandolos, pacifiying Byzant forever, among others ....of course, of course and semi-seriously nobody demands any "apology" from us or our church, nor we have anything to "apologize" for to Byzant who often treated us bad etc etc. but not important, history is more fun and searching for some answers with curious mind, even philosophical disciplne or test of honesty, than it matters today nor is political thing... we are good example at it, aren't we - once most important country on continent, even regularly feeding i.e. sending food to Palestrina/Preneste just they to have with all those salt but look at us today, banana

as seen many stories, sometimes "shocking" and surely fresh to all, sometimes just interesting, sometimes just funny how masked in Vinegian manner, but all worth saying from our side as sure people do not know much, but really to this day i have no idea why many things relating us had to be in "enigmas, rebuses etc" and why not just plainly said, you get it (as in example of 9 y/o "mama" which wasn't that at all, so why not saying straight "half-bro" etc etc many things as noted, where is need for almost conspiratory tone etc)

I mostly finished all, sadly for no interest and forum as is (but i tried what i could for pub themes) but some people obviously did read ; - added many (i believe) interesting things, some daring theories (even by some French curious heads etc) and generally some things that could if not change, greately alternate or better said correct some historical quasi "known things" regarding era, which is honestly murky as much as ancient times, as seen... when you compare,payattention to other states in same time, you get some more clearer picture and how events unfolded, as on example if we compare who ruled Venice in almost any our important moment for small example (always someone from Dandolo family) if you look who ruled France and what happened wider, if you compare how personality was Sigismund and that he did not forgive easily you cold doubt role and quasi presence of our "despot" (Byzantine for king almost) Stefan L. onsome battlefields, as agressive and rough Sigismund trusted him much etc etc etc, as talked, more thanenough for doubts...

today, and for end if i don't find some really good subject but mainly done, to add this also for lovers, of "minor importance" as people like money themes was able to "confirm" (hardly anything could be confirmed for times as demonstrated) from other sources but Wiki mentiones it as well, so quasi confirmation from other sides,also as some comparison.... it is hard to talkabout money and compare clearly as many currencies and coins, as known, were in circulation in the times, just look at France for example, not even sure was "livre tournois" some (clear) monetary unit or measure unitas opposed to "standard livre", for unimportant example etc. Venice with coins ducats and grossi, we with "our dinars" and "our gold perper" (like dinars, albeit Roman, this came from "Romea" and their hyperpyron, and we are only experts for hyperinflation)) and then also falsificates as Dante would quasi say by some maybe false interpretations it was just Venetian small whine ) etc. to not repeat... alsofeudal lords often had own measures and coins so was unclearwhat was worth what and who really priced what and how concretely...

but, to cut it short, what wanted to say to lovers of themes... we quasi have some numbers, mentioned in few places for "comparing". So two stories relating (our father-in-law)) Louis IX stand out... first that he paid 135,000 "livres" (silver unit or coin, mind difference) to Venice to clear debt of Latin (in Constant) emperor Baldwin II (maybe also our father in law, depends on theory)) and to get part of "true cross" relic (one on which Christ was) from him, allegedly... other story is that ransom for him, hence Louis IX, to "buy him" from Egypt captivity after he was captured - incredible number of alleged 400,000 "livres tournois" (mind the difference, greater measure than previous, i'd say although always speak from head, almost 80! grams of slver for one if true for time etc). Really big number this second indeed, confirming maybe "importance" of French crown in times ;

in contrast, from our side just "confirmation" of story that our ruler, last important, George "golden fork" B. allegedly paid whole 30,000 gold "coins" (sadly unspecified - Venetian ducats as he had good ties there or some Serb maybe perpers still in circulation or third, but there was idea of standartization etc) to Turkish court for St Luka (as we and Italians say) or Luke for Sexons ) to gain them in own posession, later they finished in Venice and Italy after our fall... so compare if can, money talks. That George summ is considerably (maybe if all clear) bigger than Louis paid to Baldwin, but also smaller to significant extent to what was paid for Louis, again allegedly, so have fun with some data if comparable... as said we don't know which gold coins but lets presume it was based on Venetian ducats or them indeed. then to repeat that (forget exact datanow but i talked it) George, whic was long Venetian desire which did not want too "strong Rascia" monetary, devaluated Serb dinar after 200 years maybe - from some 20+ to some 30-40 per gold ducat IIRC, roughly said so compare as well ; ...generally interesting stories if hard to compare directly or confirm all 3 of them... what is interesting, also repeat for lovers of themes, that Burgundian (and Burgundy titled as relatively rich and developed region) traveller and spy De la Broquiere in 1430 - after seeing almost whole known world except China and farer Asia - met our ruler George and named him "richest ruler/monarch or Europe" raising speculation and joke why he named him as suchand are things comparable of ability of our crown and some WEuropean etc... and was HIM really ever able to have army of over 50,000 - surely needed for siege of Thessaloniky (ongoing) and speculated Constant... etc. But even without that widening of subjects, try to put in some prospective that3 examples - as for Broquiere, surely intriguing line, if original.

so our rulers are in some connection with - who likes religious subjects btw - at least one evangelist i.e. Luke (as explained) and Nicholas (as we and Italians say, for majority Santa Claus) whose basilica Dushan donated and which has icon of HIM and Dechanski in basilica, when south Italian city was in great troubles and hunger... maybe our circles also took part in also more relics "movement" and donations to sites, but 2 wider know, if i did not forget more important surely "holy grail", Templars never revenge in vain and so on - also not pure political or military history, more for other people, but to mention.... last call from me, some word always welc, i go but hopefully true lovers catched something interesting in both known events to purely theoretical things.... i always say to people - talking medievals, think why powers in whose reach we were, from Hungary, Venice (which took some forts only after fall etc) to omni-present Capets never attacked us openly, why some powerful families had ties with us and so on, generally most interesting subjects of the time for me... much more than who died in some battle or so on, Turks )) and all. And when you properly connect Dandolos, Colonnas and Dante and Petrarca you get it right ...most seriously for end, obviously i'm lover of subjects and have many doubts about our era history and (in short) simply do not get why Hungary never waged some open war (there were silver mines and even salt fields to gain), why Dandolo married us in pompeous ceremony celebrated in whole Venice etc. in such moment and not tried to conquer etc, why French families (as we can't confirm Helens identity again) decided to marry us and maybe even tie us with directly Capets, why Sigismund (even if we reject that he ever was at Nicolpolis) placed Stefan as first and gave him privileges and cities in order etc etc. called him against Hussites etc. in time of Colonna pope etc etc. No clear answers, if you get my meaning so i wanted to interest for subjects some lovers. always add, but i'm over - if did not change your life it was surely interesting ).... as always free to say, expecting a lot of response from Italy and you, serenissima ....

to say also this, while i talked that as well - to me interesting, of course - that only theoretically speaking - but based on more "concrete stuff" than any Helen theory, but sadly - if we accept that older son of Nemanja and man who should have been ruling Serbia as king i.e. Rascia by simple primogentiture rule and who was in "civil war" with younger brother (maybe much longer war and that started earlier, near fall of Constantinople by some theories in Italy etc but not fact) who married Dandola and became first Rascian king Stefan - so older brother Vukan was married to well known and possibly old Roman family of Conti (or Conti di Segni) to say that in sense, again if we take into consideration facts and theories I talked so much of our ties with Roman families, above all "Colonna factions" and others, that that marriage maybe was even more important - or if not more almost equally - for us as one with Dandolo queen etc. As said if you follow that logic line, it was our Conti ties that enabled us some "power" and protection in Rome, Italy and wider in times when Dandolos were not so "loved" and often, like whole Venice, had some powerful enemies... so again to round that logically if not so clear from previous posts, but i think it is clear. Possibly that Conti tie, made Colonna tie, French tie etc etc. maybe even one with Ludwig Bavarian and Fridrih Habsburg whome Dushan wanted to marry into (probably, but don't see why story would not be true) and ultimately also ties with Barbarossa, other Italian families on both camps (gibs & guelphs) maybe even Sigi etc etc. So marriage Vukan had was important without any doubt for peace given to us in times, protection and enabled economic strehgth and some "blind eye" for conquests, as much as Venetian marriage etc.... why i'm saying, as always there is that notion how Vukan and later Draguten were "misthreated" by their primogeniture not being respected, but could be said that things turned well for our state with younger brothers taking crown twice, so i'm adding some personal opinion of importance and ties their marriages possibly opened, so both Vukan's line and Draguten's ties in Hungary were favorable and worth...

anyway, wanted also to add more this than previous thing to true apolitical lovers of era... in contrast to popular opinion our history of time wasn't always without some good details and not discussed among historians in some depths, often on really substantially unimportant subjects like in other (mainly WE) countries, so sometimes we have some interesting details for lovers... personally again loved this "detail" from our books, maybe even interesting for med gaming lovers and makers of some mods so i'll share as well, but again not important to any main event.... Namely there was one source that claimed that Dushan and his "rebel" army (mainly heavy cavalry by then) who followed HIM in uprising and coup against father Dechanski started movement on "some wednesday in august" and some concluded that it had to be 21st august of 1331. Since "young king" (legal primogeniture followed prince) Dushan and his army assembled and started from Scodra/Skadar etc. then capital of his domain and all oldeast princes, of Zeta as we called - so it had to be starting from midnight between day before and "that august wedneday" when they started to move through night, vampiric idea indeed His father and then still king Stefan Dechanski was in town and castle 140 kilometers from Scodra north, north east. Source said that rebel army, again heavy armed and on unfavorable terrain during night - reached that castle 140 kns away (it to be wednesday, repeat) in "sunrise" that day i.e. around 6 in the morning.... so, there was lively discussion and talks about that moment, generally not so important in some our books. So majority generally rejected claim that "Dushan's uprising started on wednesday" at all stating that it was impossible under all circumstances even for skilled cavalry and good scouts to reach that castle in 6 hours, which is true... while it was possible for forced and good horses to reach it with gallop, of course many rejected that horses under heavy armed knights could gallop for 140 kms mostly few kilometers in that tempo ;.... so in conclusion in story many rejected that it was wednesday at all and that army of Dushan (including Palman) moved from Scodra towards castle 140 kms away, so they started move at least day before during day timeto be there, if not few days earlier to cross difficult terrain and with, again, heavy armor with rest and reach castle in 6 in the morning of 21st august (which probably is true time of their arrival at spot).... as said totally unimportant per se but i like story and small, non-needed discussion - but just to demonstrate that even we in historiography sometimes had minor subjects discussed "in Anglo Saxon way" to say that way, taking into consideration small details and true speed of horses, armament etc But sadly lovely theory that Dushan started his moe true dark mountains (with known paths of course) exactly in midnight, which was indeed cool, "vampiric" and "dark" theory but not close to truth so indeed at least whole day was needed for hundreds, maybe thousands of mostly heavy knight Dushan had under hand - in reality even more days most likely - in gallop knight horse could pass only 3-4 kilometers isn't it lovely story and how sceintific and like Brits our histoios sometimes sounded ) i like so i share, but what is all worth in reality, not much... story is, except technicalities, interesting for lovers on how one prince was able with some surprise move - maybe even during night - to topple one relatively powerful king who had own forces in country which was nearing its contemporary peak, so why not sharing as well in that sense... but really nothing to add more, hope you catched few things on meds if like themes maybe even in place which never even had Euro meds history ....but belive me even you "dear Barbara" ) that more than this story there indeed are many in clear doubt even famous historians like her wrote touching our figures but without properly checking all things, events, sources and using logic... but doesn't matter, really hope you like this, i see many useful things and nice to know ones

interesting is that time i.e. theme, to say to international readers, although many domestic surely do not know much details... I don't give it some huge importance as not so religious person, but it is in a wau some "watershed moment" in quasi history, but is important how Serb rulers after it mesterfully went through it and in moment it even looked like we are "using and instrumentalising" some western families and not other way arouns )... all up to 1459 they balanced superbly at moment. BTW, while not fact I always say not without base albeit jokingly - that maybe indeed many foreign figures (in the west) trully believed either that we were some descendants of either that Serdii tribe or indeed some tribe in connection with "Servian wall"in Rome, something only strengthened by Greek V and B difference and use etc. Even if not that, simply it doesn't fit why would we have some prominence and respect in moments, as explained simply i don't see any logical answer ) ...and, btw, why i also say semi-jokingly - if we consider that our civil war was ongoing and in peak at time of fall of Constant and Latin empire and faction of Rascia urgently needed some support, how suddenly Dandolos appearedas some counterbalance to Hungary and "Emeric", played on our cards not only in Zara example (which was fall not in interest of Hungary and Vukan surely) and - bang! - few years later (or earlier by some theories) Dandola is queen of Rascia etc etc. So indeed in few momnet slooks like they were "our pawns" more than we were their in some logical way......... whole subjects are deep, I say, and never say something totally unbased - even in linguistic sense it is very interesting how countries like not only France, but also E-Spain and Serbia surely (although clearly Slavish speaking)) were those that, contrary to Italians themselves preserved more Latin "ekavianism" and forms etc. So in whole medieval discourse it should not be noted that (after Italy) actually this small country had most Roman emperors related to it, not France, not Spain, England etc.

relating Elisabeth Habsburg (if story is true, but again why not) any "research" can not give any conclusion, sadly... nice moment is at least that in time of death and alleged proposed marriage to HIM she was at least 18-19, so Dushan was normal guy, and not some 8 year old kid But in other way, I strongly oppose and reject story that she died as ahe was "fearing some king from the east" (in this sense probably meant orthodox than anything else) as by then not only Barbarossa promised some wife to us, but also we had not only Italian but also Hungarian, even French or semi-French wives, so it wasn't so uniquer for Elisabeth to quasi react like that, but not impossible that girl was in some shock, but doubt... in any way, while research can't give any further development on that story, i strongly believe that she was "eliminated" rather than natural death, but nothing. Logically greatest opponent of such marriage could be at first place Louis of Hungary, bt again we can't say anything and forever point finger at him, but truth is that he was "great rival" of HIM and Louis first war after taking throne "of Hungary" was against Duahan and last one in Dushan's life was against Louis, if not large scale war then at least some "testing of muscles" on both sides and small advances etc... Unrelated, just fell on my mind, Nemanja (or Nemanio as we and Italians say)) was per se interesting chapter in whole story - from ally of Lombard league, to ally of Roger of Sicily, from ally of Hungary to one who "decided" Stefan to rule post (with Byzantine imperial wife, but changed later) from opponent of "ghibelineism" to one who met and dealt with Barbarossa (generally not so huge character in German history as thought, i'd say, illiterate peasant)) etc. So indeed it is very hard and requires great skill and medieval knowledge to really understand on which side we were in any given moment, but skillfully played till the end - and i trully believe that Colonna was our "Roman faction", Petrarca and some Bolognese and Firentine on our side etc... in moments maybe much, much more than some Venetians (except Dandolos) and really like that find of Treviso graves in moment when Venice was "rival" for them etc. Contrary to opinion, but clear, win of some our factions not only did not brought conflict with some western powers to us, but even enabled (short but strong)) empire and last "Roman emperor" was half-Serb, sapienti sat - so i insist, that win by Stefan and Miluten factions made as even more powerful in eras etc. but who cares, look at us today

anyway, go through it if you can... but also minor thing i noticed, tactically... while that Dushan move against Dechanski indeed (there were even Germans there, hehe) looks like some "proto-blitzkrieg" ) what i also noticed that we so far back in past and meds used often (really in many ocassions, notably Miluten against some "Bulgarian lords" and simlar) military tactics we were known for as far as XX c i.e. ww1 - so often our rulers let enemy advance far into territory and then they counterattacked with force pushing them back and even advancing on their land, was case in as said few examples - Miluten let "Bulgarian lords" advance deep before pushing them back and taking their fort, Dechanski let Bulgarian king/emperor advance few hundreds kms before striking him, Dushan let Louis 2-3 times advance deeper before either pushing him or negotiang with him to retreat etc. Interesting for military historians so kind of "trademark"... but generally maybe not only our, Aragonese did it with French etc. But like that "blitz night move" by HIM, for books the end.

must say also this while around, and believe me i'm about to finish and have some changes in life etc... I try not to speak much about others - but admit i did speak, mainly some French subjects, but how not to speak if medievalist when France (quasi and for whom?)) was "most important country in era" since Charlie and even Germany was called "East Frankia" for at least some time, but indeed is all relative and was France really so "powerful" and important for all of us on continent - hardly indeed but of course one must talk about it, besides for us they were related and present "on Balkans" - so France was Balkan country via Baldwin and via Capets, but we could always crush them in needed so seriously not so important nor powerful (nor so united with kings often "on isle"around Paris)) until more modern times etc etc.

while i gave apology to French for some previous false lines (i always doubted) i will have to reluctantly, and really probably for end for many reasons, have to say also this, semi speculative and theoretically but also if not all my lines previously (since i got it right or better than before on some depths) were not clear... And since i also touched that Greek phrase "Frankokratia", indeed much, much more used for some era (as opposed to famous Greek demokratia of the times)). So what about i have to add? Maybe whole that idea of Venice (strong and able navy but hardly fighting power always nor some super rule in concrete moment) being in way "our cavalry" (i.e. Stefan's) and quasi role of quasi blind Dandolo in all that (while true for Zara)... well maybe true force behind was, as some properly speculate, France i.e. Frenchmen indeedas confirmed that Baldwin took the title as Italians did not want it etc. Even idea that Dandolo and "some" (maybe very important Capet) family should mix on our throne was also part of all that, speculatively again but not unbasedly again... If all true in that sense, it is even more interesting than it sounds at first They did it all in region to make us powerful But seriously what is really interesting if we follow ideas line I talked much - Colonnas, Petrarca, Sciarra dying in Venice in time when Andrea takes position, propsedly as his invite, good "vibe" on Dandolo-French (and us in sense) even to extent that one Dandolo is ready to act and remain remembered as "Cane" in history in front of French popes, interesting is where and why it breaks almost violently and why all 3 i.e. Capets, Dandolos and soon Nemanides leave historical scene in near time, as talked (although our rulers remain in traces in last 2 despots, on less important female line, Dandolos remain but never have doge again, and of course Capets are not so unrelated nor different than later Valois and Burbons etc etc but quasi all 3 leave scene in few decades from each). Where it "breaks" is more question for Vinegia and their factions, i think..... in any way, while nothing special against Hungary of course except that we are we and deserve empire in time ) actually it was, maybe indirectly and hidden at first - "French intervention" and not so much Venetian actions that actually enabled us (lets say powerful and almost strong kingdom of own right) all that which followed, and prevented Hungarian kings from having title of "kings of Serbia" more than any Constantinople action, maybe not even so planned plus some Byzantines called them to "intervene".... but i'm talking something else and Franco-Vinegian meddling in "our affairs" previously and unrelatedly to that "more famous" Constant event, which is again not so important for this story if you get my meaning.... paradoxically it was then (indirectly) Franco-Vinegian meddling that not only bought us some fame and short "glory" for kingdom (in actions against Hungary again, not Byzant) AND as side-effect something that prevented Serbs i.e. Serbia being catholic country/nation (maybe) today

lovely, indeed lovely stories and without any sarcasm I'm interested where and when "it breaks" in moments, while Dandolos at other moments again keep that coop alive and tie figures as Colonnas, French kings with ideas, Petrarca and our rulers esp. HIM. No sarcasm, lovely - hopefully you gat my small trick and intelectual puzzle from whole events 3 of us were deeply involved in on start of XIII c, and again not about Byzant at all ; ...lots of speculations and really glad Eco wrote work about it again as it deserves, although it took many years for me to arrange some details, our doctorate (his last in life i think) more than deserved and from right place After "arranging" think that our rulers from really Nemanja to Dushan but esp. since Miluten and his accent till Dushan did not in fact oscilate from that line at all, not a bit and all were tied to Colonna-Dandolo-France in way or another, but actually no oscilation though they appear (and were) different persons and characters... but our rulers seemed like the one "in trio" who sticked to the plan the most it was French and Vinegians that oscilated and forgot original plan )....really end, with hope all of you readers get some meanings, and stories are great... BUT i'm against any conspiratorial conclusions on all, and against giving "too much power to France" of the times - they were more than kicked around pretty much... just remember Spain, Neverlands but above all Sicily trully the end from me, but always add if you get something unusual/fresh out of it

of course, of course it was Francesco (Dandolo) not Andrea that (maybe but yes) invited and shielded Sciarra near death, Andrea "much" later marking moment (after HIMs conquest, earthquake and temepest, along Genoese and Hungarian war against) when Vinegians decided not to have Dandolo doge ever again ....until Benito i'm so laughing and somehow Italians (with all due respect, personal love for fems and certainly maybe most important country of Europe by legacy from Kesar till then) are funny and easy to laugh at, but more than that subjects are serious and think personally that indeed Dandolos maybe were greatest family of "serenissima" totally, totally undeservedly maybe seen in other light.... but it is easy to say from place which lived and gained fame in all events, but it was not religious nor conquest question at all, it was that tie (as well as Colonnas) with some intellectuals and renaEEssance (ekavianism at work)) figures that bought me and made me love them and much greater respect our role in events...

BTW, to mention since i doubt that you will (if not maybe so much into meds) find yourself one thing i found and mentioned above shortly... moment where (but it was i think constant) i found "coop" between Contis and Colonnas as deep as XV c, during Venetian origin man and pope Eugene when passions again run high in north-central Italy and wider (just becuase he was Venetian, doesn't mean anything as Venice was in "both camps" again) was on question of "spiritual franciscans" (or basic f.)when Colonna and Conti gave some shelter to them in Italy, Colonna (against pope) declared some "Roman republic", papal forces intervenned from Florence.... and Palestrina was "salted agin" .....mustsay for end, while i knew for some tradition maybe from ancient east or "hellenistic world" maybe, did not know that Papal forces used such tradition, esp. not in Italy that much, but was the case and I got some great historical joke with it.... So i get why many traders, Genoese, Venetians, "Ragusans" so priced salt and worked extensively with it - as it was obviously effective and much used weapon againt enemies in catholic tradition ...while i laugh again will repeat that we were deeply involved in such iconic events and struggles in Latium and else, Colonna was with us etc. Free Palestrina! iconic and great stories, no sarcasm at all, hats off to our rulers which really mastered it... just imagine for moment, instrumentalizing Italians (old Romans even) for brief (if few centuries is brief at all) and all.... since mentioned, "spiritual franciscans" (did i mention) were factions many E. rulers (including our, even in Jerusalem our monastery was with franciscans coop) quasi supported i.e. turned to shortly when they wanted to put pressure on official churches etc etc. but not even important. Colonna stroy is so great, all that salt, and if in Rome it is not only (unreachable) Colosseum or similar, Colonna palace should be visited by us, more than guessed importance for this state, most likely... so take some shot infront if locked and if there and if "Serb tourist"

...really would world (esp our country and reality, history and image) be so drastically different if those events of early XIII c did not happen, if Vukan (what he quasi proposed) and his faction had won, if Hungary sported overlordship over us in that moment etc etc. Religious things i repeat not even important if we are to consider that historical "what if", enough is that simply there was not those events, our crown never happened and since (say) 1202 we were "Hungary" and every event post as Hungarian above all.... personally couldn't imagine life without HIM and Miluten don't know about you but not only that, just imagine - even Croats had some (totally average)) history and kingdom before Hungarian overlordhip but if it happened to us, what would we have in concrete - realistically only (of mentionable) that one ruler was called Branus, that we crushed Boris of Bulgaria and maybe that one was crowned by them as "emperor", really really nothing else (except Servius, Rome and all that boring world conquest).... but without any joke, think every reader and interesent in med subjects, be it regional or worldwide - should seriously speaking totally, get why for us Serbs so called Nemanides were so important and huge, and contrary to opinion it is not that we are trying to say with them "that we were more glorious or able than others" just that without them it would be practically be nothing, if you get it... question is then how would we enter modern times etc. But undoubtfully, wherever you sit if realistic you see how big, big events that were for us... so again while 300 meters is surely megalomaniac (and signor Zaia rejects)) till i die would advocate at least 50m, was creation of nation, while Nemanio important and his name all wore, but actually it was his son that could turn that other way and almost prevent, if you are realistic, creation of one great line, which other marriage created, English wiki page on Enrico put it superbly in one sentence But finihsed about statues and lets leave that to some future, space generations so you all get it, it is not our mythomania, it is indeed, sciantifically and historically huge moment for one not so huge nation (but which left trace proportional enough) all that started with events from c. 1200-1204, i don't know how to call this paragraph, but something like stressing out what all meant for us, if you take moment, stop and think about it ; hope clearer

anyway, went back to Sciarra Wiki page today to take that photo of him "slapping Boni" ) as i lost it since last time talked it and see change onpage i think and that photo, while stayed on dear Sciarrillo page, novitet is that they put portrait of Sciarra by some famous Florentine painter, but painted almost 300 years later... that guy painted many faces and many are (to me) almost caricaturial and strange but Sciarra by him is nice looking guy Yes, i like Sciarrillo now, my hero in last few years - i do not want to meddle in that but recommend to chatolic church process of canonization for Giacomo No sarcasm, everyone to his own opinion, but to me positive medieval figure...what i dislike is Latin text on his portrait "killer or destroyer of Boniface" (maybe not written so negatively sounding) but is a bit non factual etc.

for end and unrelated in any way with either paragraph, humor cathed this pic x100 one word, Italians seriously, while is funny guy on photo (not made at all by painter i talked ebove) is Ludovico Medici sometimes known as Giovanni.... catched detail he as condottiere led some "Black Bands" (much later and in proto-rifles era, XVI) and story is that they were known for "mourning colors" which fits in previous stories about our knights, and all that "rascia" story... maybe something seen and copied from us, maybe something generally used (but popularized by us)) but nice to confirm why sometimes people called others "black" and why it was used again - "mourning" - our story fits, even armor... but i laughed at other things obviously... interestin story is that (allegedly by Italian page) Ludovico-Giovanni was killed by cannonball (not sharpnel or debris etc) directly in one battle, if i got it right - a bit unknightly death considering previous eras ;

also want to - if not too big "pressure" for one post - add this photo of icon in St Nicholas basilica in Bari, for lovers of arts and again if we go 300 years back compared to pics like others from Firentine and other schools.... I'd say that our masters, while laking style, brushes and colors and details of later Italians, did have some talent, even of harsh wall materials (this is not). While Santa Claus is central (and self-explained of state of it)) it represents our king "Dechanski" and his son Dushan (kneeling) and queen (who ever was in moment of creation as Dechanski had few) on right side... if you can zoom in etc. i like (and why say characterization talent was there) how differently Dushan was represented, much stronger facial traits, energy etc etc. even though pics were created while he was kid... or not ; - there is small controversy when and by whome icon was donnated and when actually made, but not crucial... Italian text along picture in sources say "donated by king of Serbia in 1319" sometimes which can be true - then ruling was Miluten still... some on the other hand speculate that Dushan donated it later and why he looks stronger etc etc etc. i have no idea, not some field and let it be final from me, really lack some subject so turned to humor and art inspired by that newly seen Sciarillo addition on page )