MAPS: Request map makers for help

[randowe]

Feel free to discuss and ask for new maps in this thread.

Currently pending map requests i could find at JP's:

- Khalkhin Gol (i'm not completely happy with existing maps)
- Zaoyang (no map)
- Changteh/Changde (i'm unhappy with existing map)
- Chongqing (i'm unhappy with existing map)
- Datong (existing map is small)
- Luding (existing map is small)
- Shanzi/Shanxi (its west of Beijing/Peking and as such would be of high interest to me - not sure about existing map)
- Tientsin (Urica made a great map - doesn't fit my ideas though)

I could really use a map of Saarbrucken or even Mainz.

Stalingrad Pocket (Map needed, the existing ones are not the map I needed)
Pocket of Minsk (The area of the pocket seems not to be not on a existing map)
Operation Doppelkopf (Map needed)
Tilsit Map
Siauliai Map

Australia!..
Alice Springs
Kalgoorlie and its gold mine

[Major Heinz]

Stalingrad Pocket (Map needed, the existing ones are not the map I needed)

Yes, a XXL Map with the City on the Right part of the map with enough room to deploy the Germans and soviets and on the left side there should be enough room to deploy core Units and a Frontline between the core and the City.

Operation Doppelkopf (Map needed)

There is no priority. In case of Need I can use Riga map.

Tilsit Map
Siauliai Map

Alternative it would be also great, if someone can make a XXL Baltic States Map with Saldus in the North, Tilsit in the south and Siauliai in the east.

A Mons Pocket map whould also be cool. Unfortunately there is only a german Wikipedia source for this battle https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessel_von_Mons
Edit:
Ok, Mons is not needed anymore. I was so stupid to look at the France Maps but Mons is in Belgium

[mythos]

- Khalkhin Gol (i'm not completely happy with existing maps)
- Zaoyang (no map)
- Changteh/Changde (i'm unhappy with existing map)
- Chongqing (i'm unhappy with existing map)
- Datong (existing map is small)
- Luding (existing map is small)
- Shanzi/Shanxi (its west of Beijing/Peking and as such would be of high interest to me - not sure about existing map)
- Tientsin (Urica made a great map - doesn't fit my ideas though)

Actaully, my wishlist is
- Khalkhin Gol and
- any 2-3 of [Zaoyang, Changteh, Chongqing, Datong or Luding]
for my Russian World Campaign.
I rather ask only for [Khalkhin Gol + 2-3 China maps], else the campagin becomes longer than i myself want to design - except someone is interested in a collaboration, i am not insisting to use FTL as the basis.

Khalkhin Gol would be great as a 3000px large map of the general area, for a large scale battle.
The others would be fine in more conservative sizes.

Stalingrad Pocket
Pocket of Minsk
Tilsit Map
Siauliai Map

Supported.

Stalingrad could even be XXL for a scenario and/or 2-4 scenarios on this map for a Stalingrad Minicampaign (as standalone or within a bigger project). The tricky part about Stalingrad is however: a winterized version would be needed, too

[randowe]

Luding

How big should the map become? Have you seen photos of the bridge? I guess it looked even more fragile back in the days?
No vehicle, besides motorbike and Tuk Tuk, could ever cross it

[mythos]

Hi Clemens

Thanks for bringing up the question: i hadn't touched the campaign path for months, and the last time that i thought about Chinese scenarios must be even longer ago. In retrospective, Luding probably only ended up on the list because the overall look was appealing (a traffic line running in north-south direction), however it is too far in the west.
Chongquing is also too far in the west - and a large urban area.
Tientsin is also a large urban area.
Shanxi is a province.

This leaves only the areas of
- Changde
- Zaoyang
- (maybe) Datong
on the Chinese part of my wishlist.

Sorry for the confusion

[MaXX_Oltt]

-

Stalingrad Pocket
Pocket of Minsk
Tilsit Map
Siauliai Map

Supported.

Stalingrad could even be XXL for a scenario and/or 2-4 scenarios on this map for a Stalingrad Minicampaign (as standalone or within a bigger project). The tricky part about Stalingrad is however: a winterized version would be needed, too

I'm working on series of mid-Don/ Kalatch/Abganerowo/North Caucasus and Kuban maps which represents the path of 1942 summer offensive campaign
All of them are LARGE
Abganerowo 9or Akhtubinsk) -SE of Stalingrad :3065x1136
Kalatch- E os Stalingrad : 2500x4295
Millerowo : 3143x1800
Mid-DON : 3840x2715
Stavropol (Kuban) : 3840x2715


https://yadi.sk/i/o1cl766JFkgcCQ

[randowe]

Welcome to the board MaXX_Oltt I guess you already know, you can book map numbers in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6
If you have any questions, feel free to ask. Good luck with your projects

(I recommend to round off your map sizes to a whole hex. Example, instead of 3065x1136, choose 3150x1150. But that is just my feeling )

[MaXX_Oltt]

(I recommend to round off your map sizes to a whole hex. Example, instead of 3065x1136, choose 3150x1150. But that is just my feeling )

Hmmm, I think maybe it's a solution of the problem - sometimes, map objects - cities, airfields etc, has a little offset from a hех grid...in other words the are not in the center of the hex.
And what is the size of a single hex??? Could you remind me please?

[sympatyk]

Luis explained it this way

The rule of thumb is to set:

Map Height = wanted-last-row * 50 pixels
Map Width = wanted-last-col * 45 + 15 pixels


and to avoid leaving a half hex size (25 pix) in the last row for odd columns.

Can check the Map section in my web to see some samples:

1.- How to figure the map image size according to a wanted-last-row and a wanted-last-column

Use these formulas to set the size of the image map:

Map Height = wanted-last-row * 50 pixels
Map Width = wanted-last-col * 45 + 15 pixels

Sample:
If you want a last-col = 69 (so the map has 70 columns from 0..69), the map width should be: 69 * 45 + 15 = 3120 pixels, (+15 to show the last's column hex, full painted: 60 = 45+15)

2.- How the engine figures the last-col and last-row available in game from a map image

The engine figures the last-col and last-row using integer division (results 6,1 or 6,9 are taken as 6) with 30 pixels as thresholds, according to these formulas:

last-col1 = map-width /45
.... If (map-width - last-col1) >= 30 , then last-col = last-col1 +1, otherwise last-col= last-col1.
* map-columns = last-col+1

last-row1 = map-height /50
.... If (map-height - last-row1) >= 15 , then last-row = last-row1 +1, otherwise last-row= last-row1.
* map-rows = last-row[/list]

So for a map with 3120 pixels height, the last column is figured this way:

last-col = 3120 / 45 = 69.3333 ... which is cut off to 69
As 3120 - (69*45) = 15 is less than 30px, last col is not incremented.

Notice that a map image width between 3105 -30 (3090) and 3105+29 (3134) pixels will result in 70 columns (0..69)
while a map width of 3135 pixels will result in 71 columns (0..70) and a map with 3089 pixels will result in 69 columns (0..68)

[MaXX_Oltt]

Thanks a lot!

[salexpg2]

Hi all

Does anybody work on or plan to make a map for Kherson (Ukraine)? I noticed that "@randowe" added recently a number of maps for Southern Ukraine, such as Nikolaev, Kakhovka, and Melitopol, thanks a lot for great job!
I am extending now the LSSAH campaign, where one of the scenarios is Kherson, for which I am not able to find any suitable map. So, Kherson map is on my wish list. Conceptually the map could be similar to Kakhovka (which is just north from Kherson), with main difference is that the Dnieper river is becoming larger forming a delta. I can help if needed to design the map.

[randowe]

to the forums

Let me ask, which game do you use? PG2 or OG? Because it determines the maximum size of the map.
Basically i can do the Kherson map. So it fits into the series of Southern Ukraine maps.
I was thinking about Kherson myself, but then went for Beryslav - Kakhovka.

Only problem are the large sandy areas south of the Dnieper river, like the Oleshky Sands. You can see it in the southwestern corner of the Kakhovka map. It maybe looks a little bit strange, but i did not find a better solution So i would use the same "sandy" grafics.

I'd go for a size of 2400x2400 pixel = 54 x 48 hex. Tell me what you think and which size you would prefer. Then i can post a picture about the map section and we can discuss it

BTW, do you plan to use any of the other Southern Ukraine maps? Just curious

[salexpg2]

Hi Randowe

Thanks for a quick response! I am new to the forum and was expecting to receive some email notification about you having sent some response; so I noticed it only now.

I would prefer to have a classical PG2 map size. I noticed that some maps, which you have created for other Southern parts of Ukraine, are larger than standard PG2 size, e.g. Melitopol. They look great, maybe too great, but then we cannot use them with old good PG2 MAP and SCN files. Of course we can think of creating a larger map if you prefer, and then we can crop it to the required PG2 size (this is what I do now with the Melitopol map).

Coming back to map details. I do not mind having "sandy" graphic for southern-western area, but some "swap"-like graphic could be a much better choice because we will model this area as swaps. I have not been to that area of Kherson myself, but I saw similar places in other parts of Ukraine. They are so-called "reeds", flooded lowlands, which we will most likely model as "swaps" because there is no "reed" terrain type in PG2 or OG.

Regards, Alex

[randowe]

Thanks for a quick response! I am new to the forum and was expecting to receive some email notification about you having sent some response; so I noticed it only now.

Maybe it works when i qoute you? It depends on the notification options you set in the board preferences at user control panel.

Roger that, then i will create a map with the size of 1920 x 1920 pixel, so you can use it with PG2.
If i will use the map myself, i may enlarge it in the furture if needed. No problemo

The Oleshky Sands and the other sandy areas are never flooded as far as i read. They are desert-like areas with sand and sparse vegetation. The Ukrainians planted a lot of forests around the sandy areas to prevent the desert from growing and dunes from moving.

If you take a look at google maps (satellite map), you can see the wetlands along the Dnieper river and the large sandy areas south of the river and the forests surrounding the sandy areas.

Here is the wikipedia entry about the Oleshky Sands: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleshky_Sands

I will post a picture of the map section in the evening. Then we can push it around until it fits your demands. You also have to tell me the required number of airfields. I checked some documents and there seem to have been only one big airfield used by the germans.

[salexpg2]

Hi Radowe

I need to double check information on "reeds" and "sands" around Kherson. While reading historical documents about the battle for Kherson in 1941, I do recall them mentioning reeds, but maybe it was only certain specific areas. Anyway, any map is better than nothing and I will be waiting for the first version!

Referring to your earlier question about which other maps I would like to see, I would mention Taganrog. LSSAH took a key role in the battle for Taganrog, but we do not have any map for it.

Regards, Alex

[salexpg2]

Hi again

A small correction to my previous post. We actually do have a map combining together Rostov and Taganrog, #1365. I just was not entirely sure whether it would be suitable for modeling only battle for Taganrog as the latter is on the left edge of the map. We can put it as a very low priority request - I will come back to this topic if I realize later that scenario does not look good with this map.

[randowe]

Hello Alex

Yeah, 1365 is maybe not suitable for an attack on Taganrog. The city is just few hex away from the western map edge. You also need some space to deploy the players units. I made that map by editing the existing Rostov map for an scenario that stages the german attack on Rostov in 1942. I will use it like this in my Black Sea campaign.

Please check the pictures below. I guess you will attack Kherson from the northwest, so i shifted the town a little bit off the center to the southeast.
I marked 4 airfields where i would place them. But i can paint them wherever you want.

I also assembled a map of Taganrog at the same scale. It looks very good in my opinion and the more i look at it, the more i want to create it and use it myself in the Black Sea campaign
Will the player's units be able to cross the Liman at an narrow point and attack the peninsula...?

Btw, there will be also a new map of Berdyansk (Osipenko). I want to create a scenario about the Battle of the Sea of Azov, just after Melitopol.

Currently i have one map in the pipeline, Kherson can be next, 3rd map Berdyansk. Then maybe Taganrog?!?
But my map making rate is slow in the summer due to high indoor temperatures

[salexpg2]

Hi Randowe

Kherson map looks amazing, I was looking exactly for something like that! I also liked the fact that you included Ingulets river. It is somewhat irrelevant for the LSSAH campaign but it would be more critical for e.g. "Black sea" campaign to model retreating Soviet 9th army. Can you consider making the Dnieper river a bit larger in the final map, especially in the area around Kherson? While reading historical documents I noticed that Soviets were using heavy monitor warships to defend Kherson, so we might also need to model some hexes as "ocean"; if I recall right, PG2 game mechanics do not allow ships to enter "river" tiles.

Berdyansk map is also a great idea! It was taken by LSSAH completing encirclement of 9th and 18th Soviet Armies, so I can add a new scenario to the LSSAH campaign (at the moment I am focusing on re-designing Kherson and Melitopol scenarios). Taganrog draft map that you shared also look great! I do not have any comments now since I have not checked yet thoroughly where exactly German and Soviet forces were. I only know that it was taken by SS LSSAH and Viking divisions, and was defended by 31st Rifle division and 44th Home Guard detachment. By the way, which editor did you use and where did you take the background pictures that you posted here?

As for the "Black Sea" and "Battle for the Sea of Azov" campaign, feel free to contact me for more help and testing. While improving the LSSAH scenarios, I had to dag out a lot of information regarding 9th and 18th Soviet Armies, order of battles and where exactly all the divisions were.

Regards, Alex

[randowe]

Alex

Can you consider making the Dnieper river a bit larger in the final map, especially in the area around Kherson?

Yes, i can do that

While reading historical documents I noticed that Soviets were using heavy monitor warships to defend Kherson, so we might also need to model some hexes as "ocean"; if I recall right, PG2 game mechanics do not allow ships to enter "river" tiles.

I never played PG2, so my knowledge about that game is pretty small. I know there is no "shallow sea" terrain, as we have in OG. But that's all i know.
Are there railroads - even that i don't know.
Anyway, i will create the map picture and OG .mapx file and i hope you can create the required PG2 .map and scenario files yourself
So you can change the terrain to your liking.

By the way, which editor did you use and where did you take the background pictures that you posted here?

I use Photoshop CS2, which is quite old already.

The maps are taken from the 1954 US ARMY series N501, Eastern Europe 1:250,000.
You can find it at the link below. That site is probably the best map resource available. Use the navigation to find other map series for all continents.

http://legacy.lib.utexas.edu/maps/ams/eastern_europe/

I had to dag out a lot of information regarding 9th and 18th Soviet Armies, order of battles and where exactly all the divisions were.

Hehe, yes, i am fighting against the 9th and 18th armies as well in my campaign
I use historic german general staff situation maps to determine the positions of the axis and soviet units. Then i research the given units history, if i am able to find more information.

I plan to release the Kherson map in the second half of July. But first i have to finish an other map which is 50% done already.
Berdyansk and Taganrog should follow in August. But it depends on the summer temperatures and heat waves

kind regrads,
Clemens

[salexpg2]

Hi Radowe

Yes, MAPX format will be perfect, I have experience with both MAPX and old good MAP formats.
I checked PG2 MAP format, it indeed does not support "shallow water", so I will need to do some manual hacking of converted MAP file.

Regards, Alex

[lvjtn]

my knowledge about that game is pretty small. I know there is no "shallow sea" terrain, as we have in OG. But that's all i know.
Are there railroads - even that i don't know.

yes, shallow sea, custom (can be used for whatever the designer likes, e.g. snow, sandy hill, sparse forest, volcano, ruines) terrain types are missing, just like the blown up and railway layers, the map names also must be exported to an external txt file and the image file should be converted to shp (the old icon tools can do this)

[randowe]

Yes, MAPX format will be perfect, I have experience with both MAPX and old good MAP formats.
I checked PG2 MAP format, it indeed does not support "shallow water", so I will need to do some manual hacking of converted MAP file.

All right, then i will go back to the drawing board and come back here when i have to show the Kherson map. Then you can say or and tell me the changes you need.

yes, shallow sea, custom (can be used for whatever the designer likes, e.g. snow, sandy hill, sparse forest, volcano, ruines) terrain types are missing, just like the blown up and railway layers, the map names also must be exported to an external txt file and the image file should be converted to shp (the old icon tools can do this)

Ah yes, i knew there were some more things. Thanks for the enlightment I completely forgot about the SHP files... i once tried to find out how to convert some of my maps to SHP for Major Heinz but i was unable to find a programm that is capable of a conversion.

[sympatyk]

Clemens
It's nice to see you active on the forum again
I am playing G36 version 5 - There is a lot of your big maps in this campaign now. It's fun to play them

[randowe]

Clemens
It's nice to see you active on the forum again
I am playing G36 version 5 - There is a lot of your big maps in this campaign now. It's fun to play them

Hehe yes, i read all reports at opengeneral.pl with the help of an translator I like that some players there attach screenshots of the battles. Every report will be better with some nice eye candy. Keep it on!

[salexpg2]

Yes, MAPX format will be perfect, I have experience with both MAPX and old good MAP formats.
I checked PG2 MAP format, it indeed does not support "shallow water", so I will need to do some manual hacking of converted MAP file.

All right, then i will go back to the drawing board and come back here when i have to show the Kherson map. Then you can say or and tell me the changes you need.

Thanks in advance! I will be waiting for the first map version.

[randowe]

Yes, MAPX format will be perfect, I have experience with both MAPX and old good MAP formats.
I checked PG2 MAP format, it indeed does not support "shallow water", so I will need to do some manual hacking of converted MAP file.

All right, then i will go back to the drawing board and come back here when i have to show the Kherson map. Then you can say or and tell me the changes you need.

Thanks in advance! I will be waiting for the first map version.

I'll finish Tirana tomorrow or Friday, so i can start with Kherson much earlier than expected

Btw, will your version of the LSSAH campaign differ much from the other versions? Will you have a lot of new scenarios and maps?

[salexpg2]

Btw, will your version of the LSSAH campaign differ much from the other versions? Will you have a lot of new scenarios and maps?

I took the LSSAH campaign from the Adlerkorps website and have already released an updated version with a number of fixes and improvements making it more historically correct. We sent the updated campaign to Adlerkorps, but it seems that it was lost there. If there is a better place to contribute updated campaign files, I will be more than happy to share them with a detailed CHANGELOG of what was modified. I also have a TODO list, feedback for which I will be more than happy to get. At least my next steps are to re-design completely Kherson and Melitopol scenarios - thanks to new maps from randowe!
You can take a look at the updated LSSAH campaign at least here: http://panzermarshal.com.

Regards, Alex

[randowe]

Btw, will your version of the LSSAH campaign differ much from the other versions? Will you have a lot of new scenarios and maps?

I took the LSSAH campaign from the Adlerkorps website and have already released an updated version with a number of fixes and improvements making it more historically correct. We sent the updated campaign to Adlerkorps, but it seems that it was lost there. If there is a better place to contribute updated campaign files, I will be more than happy to share them with a detailed CHANGELOG of what was modified. I also have a TODO list, feedback for which I will be more than happy to get. At least my next steps are to re-design completely Kherson and Melitopol scenarios - thanks to new maps from randowe!
You can take a look at the updated LSSAH campaign at least here: http://panzermarshal.com.

Regards, Alex

Unfortunately it seems that Adlerkorps has been abandoned, but maybe you can publish the files once that campaign is finished...
I guess every map maker likes to play on his/her own maps. So it would be great to take a look and play the updated campaign with AK.

I am not at home this weekend, but i guess i can finish Kherson by the end of next week. As i said, i will post the map picture here before it gets published and we can discuss final changes.

Someone posted a link to Panzer Marshal some time ago, but i must admit, i just took a short look.
I shall have no other turn based games besides OG

[salexpg2]

Hi radowe

Take your time with the Kherson map, there is no rush. I will of course be more than happy to see the first version to provide my feedback.

Speaking of the Kherson map, if I recall right you mentioned that you have been working on the campaign for battles at the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov. Is there a discussion thread for that? The background for my question is that while researching battle for Kherson, I came across several sources that had briefly mentioned LSSAH fighting east from Nikolaev, just a week before taking Kherson. Having matched it with some Soviet sources, it seems that it was a series of battles with retreating Soviet 9th and 18th armies, but I am not sure as I was not able to find any good references to the corresponding English sources. Anyway, since you provided a map for Nikolaev, I thought that you might have studied the battle for Nikolaev and whether LSSAH played any big role there. If so, I can add Nikolaev scenario as well; otherwise just forget about it.

As for the LSSAH campaign, I will be more than happy to get guidance on where (on this forum) I can post updated files for the LSSAH campaign.

Regards, Alex

[randowe]

Hello

There is no discussion thread for the battles of the Black Sea and Sea of Azov (yet). If you want to discuss things further, feel free to create one

My primary source for my Black Sea Campaign are the German General Staff of the Army situation maps. They were compiled every day in the evening.
For example, the map from the evening of 13th August 1941 shows LSSAH northeast of Nikolaev.
As i read it, it shows that parts of the division had to stay back and fight around Novyi Buh, while most of the division was moving southwards next to the 16th Panzer-Division while the 16th was closing the pocket. Meanhwile the 3 hungarian brigades (two motorized, one cavalry) appoached Nikolaev from the north.
The recon detachement of LSSAH is furthest to the south(east) of the LSSAH division.
Unfortunately the area of interest is not part of my Nikolaev map (no. 1502). Its the eastern map edge at best.

A.A.= Aufklärungsabteilung, recon detachement
Tle. = Teile, parts (of a division)
Fähre = ferry
st. mot. Einzel-Verk = heavy motorized single traffic. Probably means unorganized retreat of dispersed units?
zerl. Kol. all. Waffen = dismantled columns of all kind of weapons. Retreating enemy. I am not sure if that "dismantled" means the artillery etc. is in transport condition or the columns were "dismantled", meaning dispersed?
V.A. Vorausabteilung = a vanguard of combined motorized arms. For example, a recon detachment, a coy infantry, a coy engineers, a battery of artillery and a AT platoon. All motorized. But could be mixed ad hoc formatios as well i guess.
9 Zge. = 9 Züge, 9 trains
ung. Schn. Kps. = ungarisches schnelles Korps, Hungarian Rapid Corps, "Gyorshadtest".



The only other map about the battle of Nikolaev i found, is this one:

[salexpg2]

There is no discussion thread for the battles of the Black Sea and Sea of Azov (yet). If you want to discuss things further, feel free to create one

Ok, we can create later the one.

My primary source for my Black Sea Campaign are the German General Staff of the Army situation maps. They were compiled every day in the evening.
For example, the map from the evening of 13th August 1941 shows LSSAH northeast of Nikolaev.
As i read it, it shows that parts of the division had to stay back and fight around Novyi Buh, while most of the division was moving southwards next to the 16th Panzer-Division while the 16th was closing the pocket. Meanhwile the 3 hungarian brigades (two motorized, one cavalry) appoached Nikolaev from the north.
The recon detachement of LSSAH is furthest to the south(east) of the LSSAH division.
Unfortunately the area of interest is not part of my Nikolaev map (no. 1502). Its the eastern map edge at best.

Thanks a lot for the map. It is inline with what other sources mention - LSSAH did not participate implicitly in closing the pocket around Nikolaev but rather was moving rapidly towards Kherson.

Regards, Alex

[randowe]

Take your time with the Kherson map, there is no rush.

I got distracted by an other map which i will post today in the evening But Kherson will be next, i swear

Do you know that LSSAH did not cross the Dnieper after taking Kherson? The 72th and 73th infantry divisions took positions at Kherson and LSSAH was pulled back for refits into the area around Bobrynets south of Kirovohrad. Refits took around 10 days to 2 weeks. Then LSSAH crossed the Dnieper at Beryslav - Kakhovka.

[salexpg2]

Hi radowe

Yes, I read in some sources/documents that LSSAH was refitting after the battle for Kherson, while other German infantry divisions were trying to cross Dnieper. However, interestingly enough, some Soviet sources do mention LSSAH fighting for Khakovka bridgehead. What I found in one document is that on September 9th, German 170th, 22th, 46th, 73th infantry divisions, 1st mountain division, and some units from LSSAH were holding the bridgehead fighting against 7 Soviet division from 9th and 18th armies. Do you have more information on that and whether LSSAH played any big role there? Since we have a brand new map for Khakovka, I am wondering whether that scenario should be added to the campaign.

Regards, Alex

[randowe]

What i can tell from the maps is:

On 8th September LSSAH was just north of Beryslav, aproaching the german bridge that connects Beryslav with the Kakhovka bridgehead. Surely the germans had some kind of ponton bridge or ferries.

Unfortunately i lack the map of 9th September. The original files can be up to 100mb for one map and download speed from the FTP server is pretty slow, so i am not able to provide day-by-day informations yet. I already dowloaded more than 200 situation maps, but it will take me some more time to get them all...

On 10th September we have the following german units in the bridgehead from west to east:
73. ID, A.A. LSSAH, 46. ID, V.A. XXX Korps, 22. ID, 170. ID, 1. Mountain, V.A. XXXXIX Korps. The 72. ID is crossing the pontoon bridge, LSSAH still on the northern side. So that day the A.A. of LSSAH is already fighting south of the Dnieper. If you got the information that parts of LSSAH were fighting in the bridgehead on 9th September, it was probably this Aufklärungsabteilung.

On 11th September, the bulk of the LSSAH is crossing the pontoon bridge while parts (Tle.) of the divsion are fighting east of the brisgehead. The A.A., together with the V.A. of LIV Korps are making a speedy approach towards Perekop.
I read on the internet that they reached the outskirts? of Perekop, but got repelled and the raid failed.

On 15th September the bulk of LSSAH is making a speedy approach towards the Chonhar Pensinula/Chongarsky Isthmus, probably they tried again to break through in a coup, but got repelled and then moved towards Melitopol. Some parts of the division were still clearing the area southwest of Kherson.

On 25th September the division is again in a position north of Perekop.

On 29th September the division is in the very north of the german front, just south of the big Dnieper bend.

On 3rd/4th October the division is few kilometers northwest of Melitopol.

On 7th October LSSAH is approaching Berdjansk, meeting with the 16th and 14th Panzer Divisions, closing the pocket.

On 8th October LSSAH captured Mariupol.

Sometimes divisions make rapid movements left and right and back and forth and i ask myself it it can be true, but on the other hand i am pretty sure the general staff had accurate maps at hand At least the positions of the own units should be accurate
For now, i'll stop here. Thats what i can tell when looking at the maps. You see, many days are still missing in my map collection...
If you want to know about later dates, please feel free to ask

Map of 11th September 1941:

[sympatyk]

Hi Clemens

The first time I played on such a large map -> 50001
Let me put it this way - great map
If it rains - you really feel its size
It is this - huge maps, new game possibilities - that distinguishes OG from PG2
Congratulations to you for making so many new maps
Thanks to Luis for the new possibilities in the game

[salexpg2]

Hi Randowe

Unfortunately i lack the map of 9th September. The original files can be up to 100mb for one map and download speed from the FTP server is pretty slow, so i am not able to provide day-by-day informations yet. I already dowloaded more than 200 situation maps, but it will take me some more time to get them all...

Thanks a lot for these situational maps. Just out of curiosity, where do you download them from?

Regards, Alex

[randowe]

Hi Randowe

Unfortunately i lack the map of 9th September. The original files can be up to 100mb for one map and download speed from the FTP server is pretty slow, so i am not able to provide day-by-day informations yet. I already dowloaded more than 200 situation maps, but it will take me some more time to get them all...

Thanks a lot for these situational maps. Just out of curiosity, where do you download them from?

Regards, Alex

Alex

You will find information about the FTP server on this blog site:

http://wwii-microfilm.blogspot.com/

2 years ago there was a website first where you could easily download the files, but then it changed to an open access FTP-Server and now new users need to contact J C CALVIN it seems. Situation maps are just a small part of the documents that are available.

[randowe]

Alex

I made the Dnieper today and some other stuff. Please take a look and tell me if it is okay like this?
When you mentioned the river monitors i was unsure what you mean exactly. I made the Dniepr somewhat wider than at Kakhovka.
But a two hex wide river would be too much and it would be completely out of proportion. I also added a Hex that can be used as a port if needed. See the little piers

[salexpg2]

Hi Randowe

The map looks great! Here are some comments and questions:

- Is there a way to generate the map with city names rendered on top? It will help me to understand the scale of the map and which cities you included.
- Do you plan to keep most hex in the current green "grassland" colour or will you change them to yellow "steppe"?
- Do you plan to include Ingulets river?
- There is a railway bridge right from Kherson, did it exist there back in 1941?

I do not have a strong view regarding how wide Dniepr should be. I thought that making it wider around Kherson, up to 2 hexes, would be more "realistic", but I cannot imagine clearly which way it will look better.

Regarding sea/river monitors, what I meant is as follows. While defending Kherson (and by the way while fighting around Khakovka), Soviets used several heavy monitors, some of them equipped with 200mm guns. Thanks to them Kherson was captured only after 3 days of fighting. So, the Dniepr river should be ideally navigable and wide enough to use monitors, at least around Kherson area. I however have no clue whether e.g. OG supports the concept of navigable rivers. Should it be at least "shallow water"?

Regards, Alex

[randowe]

- Is there a way to generate the map with city names rendered on top? It will help me to understand the scale of the map and which cities you included.

You can load the mapx files within Open General Suite to read the names.
I guess you just take the map picture and create a file on your own, whatever is needed for Panzer Marshall?
I can create a map with an overlay of the paper map. The blue grid is at 10km scale, so a blue square is 10x10km. The width of a PG2/OG Hex is about 1,9km.

But keep in mind that often names are have changed and the paper map is from the 1950s or so. When i create the mapx file, i add the Soviet era name and the modern name as well.

Do you plan to keep most hex in the current green "grassland" colour or will you change them to yellow "steppe"?

I keep the color as it is to keep it identical within the map series. I will just add more fields/agricultural land at the end.
I will just add some of the yellow "sand" thing, we were talking about before. (See map picture below)

Do you plan to include Ingulets river?

Yes, it is already done today.

There is a railway bridge right from Kherson, did it exist there back in 1941?

I had planned to include it and have already added all the railroads. I also want to add a road bridge next to the railroad bridge.
But it seems there were no bridges in 1941. Back then the most southern bridge seemed to be the bridge at Zaporizhia. So from Zaporizhia to the river mouth there was no bridge!
But i thought i include it, because it make things easier?!? I can delete it if you want.

Here you can see todays progress:



EDIT: i forgot:

I thought that making it wider around Kherson, up to 2 hexes, would be more "realistic", but I cannot imagine clearly which way it will look better.

Would i make the Dnieper 2 hex wide, it would be totaly blown out of proportion. I feel pain thinking about it and i don't think it should be done

In Open General there are different ocean/river terrains labels possible and different naval movement types which are bount to the different terrain labels. There is OCEAN, SHALLOW SEA, IMPASSABLE RIVER and RIVER. But it can be changed in every scenario, so it does not matter much what i add to the mapx file because every scenario designer can changed the terrain labels. They are then stored within the scenario file.

EDIT 2: There is a german (and russian) Wikipedia aricle about the Antonivka Railroad bridge near Kherson.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoniwka ... r%C3%BCcke

Some soviet documents:
https://trainfanat.livejournal.com/282173.html

I guess we still can add it to the map. So the map would be useful for different scenarios, no?

EDIT 3: But if you want, i can remove the bridge(s).
If some day in the future somebody needs this map with or without bridges i can edit it in this or that way and publish a second version.

[salexpg2]

Hi Randowe

The map looks great!

I did some further reading of the railroad bridges, and to my knowledge there was no bridge back in 1941. The bridge you mentioned was finished only in 1949. Sooo... if want to cater for better historical accuracy, I would suggest removing it. However, maybe you can keep this version of the map as "Kherson 1949" in case somebody decides to model hypothetical military actions in that area

Regarding the river width, yes, you are right, making it 2 hex width might be too much. My fundamental concern was not even about a particular hex type, river versus shallow water, but rather how the game engine will handle a case when there are two ships on a river with 1 hex width. Will the game engine allow the first ship to "overtake" the second one? And that was one of the reasons behind my suggestion to make the river somewhat wider around Kherson. Nevertheless, 1 hex width should be also good.

I do not have an access now to my laptop with PG2 and OG tools, so I cannot load the MAPX file to check city names. I will check it at the end of the next week.

Regards, Alex

[salexpg2]

Hi again

I did some further reading of the railroad bridges, and to my knowledge there was no bridge back in 1941. The bridge you mentioned was finished only in 1949. Sooo... if want to cater for better historical accuracy, I would suggest removing it. However, maybe you can keep this version of the map as "Kherson 1949" in case somebody decides to model hypothetical military actions in that area

As a small correction, that bridge near Kherson was finished only in 1954.

[randowe]

Hi again

I did some further reading of the railroad bridges, and to my knowledge there was no bridge back in 1941. The bridge you mentioned was finished only in 1949. Sooo... if want to cater for better historical accuracy, I would suggest removing it. However, maybe you can keep this version of the map as "Kherson 1949" in case somebody decides to model hypothetical military actions in that area

As a small correction, that bridge near Kherson was finished only in 1954.

I just checked the german maps and in 1943 they show a railroad from Kherson to Crimea. So after they captured the area in 1941 they must have built a railroad.
There are also 2 "connections" crossing the Dnieper shown on the 1943 map, but i don't know what that means exactly. Maybe they used ferries and the railroads ended on both sides of the river. The germans also used to built cableways across the big rivers in Russia and Ukraine. At least, cableways are often mentioned on the situation maps. But on the (rare) pictures the cableways look rather light and small.
But i must admit, that it would require a deep dive into the topic and i don't have the time and desire to do further research. I mean, we are not writing a history book, we just create scenarios for video games...

I will remove the bridge in our map and if anybody in the future needs a map with a bridge, i can add it easily. I'll keep it in the photoshop files anyway.

kind regards

[salexpg2]

Hi Randowe

I assume that all the temporary bridges and cableways are modelled with "bridge engineers" in OG/PG2. So, thanks for agreeing to remove that railroad bridge

Regards, Alex

[randowe]

I assume that all the temporary bridges and cableways are modelled with "bridge engineers" in OG/PG2. So, thanks for agreeing to remove that railroad bridge

I finished the roads and fields yesterday. Please take a look at the final version of the map and tell me if it is okay like this. I will then create the mapx file

[salexpg2]

Hi Randowe

The map is amazing, thanks!

Can you send the map picture and "handwrite" names of basic cities? Then I can take a closer look at details. Without knowing which city which - at the moment I can only guess - it is a bit difficult to provide further feedback.

Regards, Alex

[randowe]

Hi Randowe

The map is amazing, thanks!

Can you send the map picture and "handwrite" names of basic cities? Then I can take a closer look at details. Without knowing which city which - at the moment I can only guess - it is a bit difficult to provide further feedback.

Regards, Alex

Hello Alex

Please see the names of the settlements on the map below. I simply cut out the names from the paper map. But please keep in mind that these are the names from the 1950s and that they often have changed compared to the modern names. There is also the difference between Russian and Ukrainian languages.
As i said, in the mapx file i will write down both names, Soviet era and modern Ukrainian, as i did with the other mapx files from the Black Sea Series. Sometimes you have to determine the modern name based on the geografical location. I mean, i really do it as best as i can, but that does not mean there are no mistakes



kind regards,

Clemens

[salexpg2]

Hi

I have been busy recently and did not have time to look into the details of city names and their locations. The major city locations are perfectly fine, but I was not able to identify smaller towns/villages that you have in the top right part of the map. Maybe they existed back in 1941 and vanished later. I will check it further.

Regards, Alex

[randowe]

Hi

I have been busy recently and did not have time to look into the details of city names and their locations. The major city locations are perfectly fine, but I was not able to identify smaller towns/villages that you have in the top right part of the map. Maybe they existed back in 1941 and vanished later. I will check it further.

Regards, Alex

Hello

I guess many villages got destroyed in WWII and never got rebuilt. There are often "ruins" mentioned in the old maps. Other Villages or cities are marked as "partially destroyed". Names have changed often in the 20th century and translations can be inaccurate.
For example, in my map there is a village named Chikuna, but i could not find it in modern maps, so i also use the name of the village Huljajhorodok in the mapx file. Huljajhorodok, which i found at the geografic location of Chikuna.

There are also many more villages in reality than on the PG2/OG maps. At the scale of the game the maps would be overcrowded with villages, so you have to choose some villages to display and dismiss others.

I think the map picture and mapx file are okay now and i would like to publish them as they are now

My next map has to be a 3K version of Leningrad, because i got stuck at this point in the ATOMIC Blitzkrieg campaign. After Leningrad i'll come back to Berdyansk and Taganrog.

kind regards

Clemens

[salexpg2]

Hi Clemens

Thanks a lot for your hard work - the map is amazing. I also noticed that it had been already uploaded to the database, #1528. Do you or somebody also plan to upload the MAP file or should I generate the one myself (and submit it)?

As an off-topic question, I have been planning to leverage your Melitopol map for one of the LSSAH scenarios, but since it is larger than PG2 standard size, I cannot convert it as it as. Is there a simple way to crop a large map? Cropping the background picture is of course a simple task, but is there a simple way to "crop" MAPX?

Regards, Alex