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There are already native converts, but they are pretty much useless. They plant food and raw materials better than untrained settlers, but less good than specialists. And once that one guy joins the continental congress all native converts become untrained settlers...

The economics system of Colonization is very simple and if you take a closer look, pretty useless:

A colony has 8 tiles (yes, the center tile also produces a little food and raw material) where raw materials can be produced by specialist or untrained settlers (or converts or even slaves if they would be implemented). Let's assume that you want to have one lumberjack and one ore miner in your colony. Then there are 2 farmers and a fisherman.
Then, for example, you have 3 specialist tobacco planters who produce raw tobacco. The raw tobacco will be used by 2 specialist cigar makers to produce cigars.
Once you have a hundred (tons or units of) cigars, you load your ship and sail to the open sea. Then the ship sails to Europe. You sell the tobacco to get money (minus tax!). But what for? With all the money you will most likely end up buying new settlers.

Now, what if you just put farmers into your colony? Every 200 units of food you will get a new settler. Depending on the terrain and resources you can get a new settler every 2 to 4 turns. So the result is pretty much the same with or without the whole industrial process.

Hell, the only goods you really need in the game are tools (iron ore), muskets (iron ore) and horses, which reproduce themselfs when there is enough food.

It also doesn't matter if you own 10 colonies, 20 or 200. The declaration of independence is not bound to a number of colonies. The strength of your whole colonial nation is not bound to the number of colonies.
If you build just one colony with ocean access and the rest of your colonies inland, you will need only a very small number of soldiers.
And, more generally, the number of soldiers is not very important. If there are 10 or 100, it doesn't matter. You just need enough horses, which reproduce themselfs out of nothing (food).

So, yeah, i love the game , but i don't play it because of the economics part

For example, in Imperialism II you will need a strog presence in the new world to be good in the old world. But in Colonization new world and old world and thus the whole economics system of colonies and old world is very very simple.

So, yeah, i love the game , but i don't play it because of the economics part

we all know that Randowe plays it for its superb graphics ...joke but no joke as there is charm in that esp. if one had privilege to experience "graphics revolution" many years ago, something today youths do not see the same

nice discussion guys, as side note must admit never thought about Bombasts point in that way as political correctness in games, regardless of subject (and Colon isn't the only game trading historical for political one). It is an industry after all and entertainment... while many games through years failed my "historical accuracy test" fun factor was satisfying... in that sense i'll take your words as explaination why some region in other game was presented as wool producing while it was famous historically for silver-gold alloy have fun all.

randowe wrote: ↑2020-01-24 12:26, Friday Hell, the only goods you really need in the game are tools (iron ore), muskets (iron ore) and horses, which reproduce themselfs when there is enough food

In that aforementioned African map match my booming period stemmed initially, I think, from employing much of the sack obtained from "indian wars" acquiring tools, muskets and horses, quite so.
The tools I used mainly for creating infrastructure aimed at producing the various "for sale goods".
It was partly with revenues from those I kept bringing herds of horses and piles of muskets from Europe until practically very near the end.
I probably "made" less than 5% of my muskets. Bred maybe 10 or 15% of my horses.
Finished with over hundred thousand "gold".
The horses and muskets I used to keep a steady series of "european" wars which kept adding colonies, colonists and sack to fuel the system.

In the current match I was unable to do that.
Indians never declared war and I let them be, so there was no sack for "ignition".
Additionally I was only able to produce "coats" and a modicum of silver.
Variety slows down price falling if I'm not mistaken...

I'm almost reaching 1750 and all I can show is being near to eliminate the Spanish (3 colonies left).
But the Spanish settlements brought me "rum", so lets see if there's enough money in that for those horses/muskets...

Ale wrote: ↑2020-01-24 15:37, Friday nice discussion guys, as side note must admit never thought about Bombasts point in that way as political correctness in games, regardless of subject (and Colon isn't the only game trading historical for political one). It is an industry after all and entertainment... while many games through years failed my "historical accuracy test" fun factor was satisfying... in that sense i'll take your words as explaination why some region in other game was presented as wool producing while it was famous historically for silver-gold alloy have fun all.

Are there "slaves" in the Imperialism series?
Or better still you could see for yourself given your personal taste; are there any Roman themed games which bear mention to the "s" word?

Bombast the Blue wrote:Are there "slaves" in the Imperialism series?
Or better still you could see for yourself given your personal taste; are there any Roman themed games which bear mention to the "s" word?

No, don't remember them in Imperialism1+2. (i think you know that yourself, but just for answer to other readers)

Regarding my taste - glad you noticed, ancient Rome is great passion since 11-12 years of age and followed me through life, not sure completely why except being of Roman origin myself - must say it is not very strict on Rome and ancients, played a lot of SF themed and medieval suff (and modern like PG series of course) same goes for movies or books.... But for answer: again you are right, not that many mentions. Although 1993 game I played "there" (with a lot of humor and sarcasm) do touch upon the theme of slaves and player buys/uses them. There are other examples (to confirm the rule, as old proverb) but generally you are right and that's why I pointed out your thought (very good) about PC and added mine about "marketing" point and sacrifice of historical correctness, not absolutely related but could explain my words. Good point again, on PC because i never thought it that way. From now on - while point taken - I'll try to talk technical details when games considered, probably noticed i tend to go too much into historical details in other threads, and do not want to as our primary interest are games here

Ale wrote: ↑2020-01-24 15:37, Friday

So, yeah, i love the game , but i don't play it because of the economics part

we all know that Randowe plays it for its superb graphics

You got me haha

Ale is right, there are no slaves in Imperialism. In the Civ III Rise and Rule mod some military units can enslave enemy units when a combat is won.
That is very useful at the begining of the game. Slaves are worker type units which can build roads and mines and so. You can even sacrifice the slaves upon your altars in your cities to get 2? culture points. I sometimes sacrifice captured workers, which give you 20 culture points.

you are such Brutus good to know i played more Civ 1 & 2 historically, third one (and maybe 4,5,6..)) is worth some time in perspective


one lighter thought on previous subject - as end not because I do not like to talk, just because I mostly talked too much in this pub for now - I sometimes am so sweet and forgive a lot over internet in posts, but personally I'd strangle with my bare hands person responsible for such offense as presenting our richest mining region of the time as "wool producing" in game to repeat, have fun with games, good points always taken.

Still on the mods...

Indian converts seems to work, at least partially:
They are "promoted" to free colonist on assignment to a "job".

Plant forest works:
Tried it once and forest appeared a few turns later.
I got the impression the pioneer was consumed though, which I should confirm later on.

Shipable wagon works:
Galleons do load, transport and unload wagons.

Experience from buildings:
I'm yet to see any free colonist turning to building specialist so I don't know what to conclude.
It was supposed to take more time (3 or 4 X) than with "field" specializations but I think it should have already happened by the 1770s.

Planting forests would be great. Faster roads would be a nice addition too. Especially on the bigger maps transport is slow. Settlers may need 10 turns or longer to get to a certain colony.
Some kind of road upgrade would be useful. A normal road costs 20 tools and the time a pioneer needs to build it. Maybe there could be major roads that need 40 additional tools and 4 turns to build and upgrade a normal road. Movement of settlers would be dubbled.
I mean, we would not need Civilization-like railroads which allow long range transport in no time
I'll look for freecol upgrades every now and then in the future and maybe one day there will be freecol 2

randowe wrote: ↑2020-01-31 23:32, Friday Planting forests would be great. Faster roads would be a nice addition too. Especially on the bigger maps transport is slow. Settlers may need 10 turns or longer to get to a certain colony.

It would be enough if colonists could be transported in wagons. That would make them significantly faster on the move.

Radoye wrote: ↑2020-02-01 04:07, Saturday

randowe wrote: ↑2020-01-31 23:32, Friday Planting forests would be great. Faster roads would be a nice addition too. Especially on the bigger maps transport is slow. Settlers may need 10 turns or longer to get to a certain colony.

It would be enough if colonists could be transported in wagons. That would make them significantly faster on the move.

Good idea. You are right, that should do the trick as well

Someone should tell them, over there at the freecol forums, about our ideas

Radoye wrote: ↑2020-02-01 04:07, Saturday

randowe wrote: ↑2020-01-31 23:32, Friday Planting forests would be great. Faster roads would be a nice addition too. Especially on the bigger maps transport is slow. Settlers may need 10 turns or longer to get to a certain colony.

It would be enough if colonists could be transported in wagons. That would make them significantly faster on the move.

Couple a days ago I took a look at the freecol forum trying to discover if there was something else besides those mods in that list.
Someone seems to have done that. A bigger wagon with capacity for 600 cargo or colonists.
I got the impression there is much more spread across many topics.
Unfortunately very little got into the above mentioned list.
You have to "hunt" for them mods.
A second problem is compatibility.
Often mods eventually stop working as the game versions progress.
For example I downloaded an "ethnicity" mod, that by the way includes slaves replacing petty criminals, and the thing is actually a modded 11.2 version game.
Last stable version is 11.6
And in some cases it just seems they cannot be downloaded anymore.

In a section dedicated to ideas for a future freecol 2 I found a topic about the "slaves" theme.
If I understood well its likely there will be slaves if they get a go at freecol 2.

Another thing I noticed, was that someone posted a pair of map packs, the second one very recently.
These seem to have caught the eyes of the development team, so its possible next version includes new maps.
One of them is described like a World Map, exactly my kind of thing...

But what would slaves be for? Would they be as useless as Native Coverts?
Those units would only make sense when the permanent costs of a trained planter (specialists) would be so high, that you would use "cheap" units instead.
But the only permanent cost of any unit is food, and the food consumption of any unit is the same

Anyway, i recently read that some guy created a lot of graphics for units of all nations and that there is the idea to add special units to freecol 2. An other guy was talking about a game in later years (Industrial Age )
I guess, i'll just continue to visit the freecol forum from time to time and see whats new. Like i do with many other free/open/fan made games

randowe wrote: ↑2020-02-09 22:07, Sunday But what would slaves be for? Would they be as useless as Native Coverts?
Those units would only make sense when the permanent costs of a trained planter (specialists) would be so high, that you would use "cheap" units instead.
But the only permanent cost of any unit is food, and the food consumption of any unit is the same :dunn

Precisely!
The main take is on food consumption with slaves consuming 1 instead of the regular 2 food units.
An additional nudge comes from them producing more than free colonists in outdoors jobs and less indoors.
If the player has just a slave and a free c available at a given colony...

The discussion on the subject at the freecol 2 ideas section of their forum points to other possible directions.
An entirely different approach suggested involves using slave units to found "plantations".
Those would be outside the colonies' area of influence and contributing just "gold" for the players coffers, not goods.
For whoever has the will and the time:
https://sourceforge.net/p/freecol/discu ... /89f068dc/


https://photos.app.goo.gl/UQhN8h3ZPGThTW2N9
And now for something completely different: caravans...
Here it is, the caravan mod, basic idea seems to be considering a unit made of various wagons (3?).
Capability 6 holds like the galleon , in this case 3 empty, one carrying a free colonist and the remaining two with lumber.
https://sourceforge.net/p/freecol/discu ... f7a39ae5b/
(Note that following the install instructions got me the thing working but I saw a red cross;
to see the proper icon I had to figure out copying it from the mod to the main game)

Some good ideas out there. I like the caravans. They should get implemented once they start with freecol 2

The plantatios Well i don't know. I'd prefer the cities getting bigger than 9 tiles and use the slaves, criminals, servants "in" the colony.
Maybe it should get harder to get hundreds of trained settlers/specialists, so the use of slaves, converts, criminals and servants will be inevitable.