Open Mike

[HexCode]

Sooner or later, all cats are being let out of the bag.
Incompetent humans cannot find their way out of a wet paper bag.

THEREFORE:

Cats hate water.
Cats sneer at humans.
Incompetence craves dryness.

AND

Husbands must be bagged.
Grocery shopping should be undertaken only when it rains.
When bespectacled, lionesses are way smarter than Trotskyite intellectuals.

[lvjtn]

Ok, given the recent, unilaterally proclaimed "posting race", it's in the practical interest of "Open Mike" to invite as many posts as possible, right ?

i sincerely ask everybody posting here to not start a spam war. okay, it's the pub, the rules about offtopic posting are less restrictive here, but please, keep some quality level of the posts what they had on the first 5 pages

[Ale]

so after full year in which corona related and pandemic posts dominated in "mike", fresh news is i got vaccinated today. with Chinese one, lets hope for the best. I did sign a paper in which is said i delegate my fate to Sinofarm hands... i was with a group, we had our term today. they say that American vaccine will be available from next few days (do not follow topics that much) Anyway, Chinese are serious scientists (i hope) and hint is - it doesn't hurt

20 days more - for second shot, if alive - and Turkey i'm clean of that calamity too ) good luck... if you do not see me, well .....

[Wonderdoctor]

so after full year in which corona related and pandemic posts dominated in "mike", fresh news is i got vaccinated today. with Chinese one, lets hope for the best. I did sign a paper in which is said i delegate my fate to Sinofarm hands... i was with a group, we had our term today. they say that American vaccine will be available from next few days (do not follow topics that much) Anyway, Chinese are serious scientists (i hope) and hint is - it doesn't hurt

20 days more - for second shot, if alive - and Turkey i'm clean of that calamity too ) good luck... if you do not see me, well .....

All the best! Keep us updated.

[Ale]

nothing spectacular on health plan, who knows what's inside beside - as declared by Sinopharm - inactive (dead) SARS and cov2 bodies anyway you'll understand "my thread with pics" (some time ago) wasn't needed that much and i'm too casual to maintain it, so i'll use this place for everything (or almost anything)... that's intent. (if pictures are disliked here, just say) Thematically it is related to my recent activity in this thread...

found this 1910 front page of British weekly, catched my attention in many ways and is interesting to read. First of all can't imagine today if our president/ruler or anyone visiting Stambol and that to be on front page in England or any bigger country Second it was six day visit, people of Stambol waved and greeted our king, also noticed enthusiastic waving of flag behing by Turk (was he Ottoman in fact)) guard soldier etc. etc. Many unbelievable details from today perspective but it was like it...

final thought, yes there was war 2 years later - last one between Serbia and "Turkey" in history (for now)) second one we were "allies" and ww1 was technicality without any combat between two - because we had to "get old Ras back home" but looking at story must say glad that in such last war operations ended fast and Turks both in Macedonia and Edirne didn't suffer much if/when captured (by our soldiers)... my thoughts aside, great UK front page and interesting to look at, sometimes "modern people" indeed should learn at least a bit from both medieval and XIX/early XX century relations, even when they were bad in times...

[Ale]

it's OK then you just say and I change thread or open new one... like funny pics, or unoffensive political satire on president Erdogan (great friend) and relations in "region" - maybe I'll post something eventually later (or never)). Word is enough and I go to my thread, most seriously, same to moderators....

for now though, here's just poster for "Black knight/white angel" film, my work .... not sure if it's Turkish or Azeri dress (would fit in XV century and is very beautiful equally)...

[Ale]

...difference is when I say "region" I mean traditional Balkan one (from Turkey to Hungary) but when political Turk say "region" (esp. Anatolia based) for them it means also Caucasus, Middle east etc. being more than 10x bigger country and with only small part on Balkan, Rumelia.

we as a country I'd say do not have luxury nor need to launch stories about great historical battles with Turks (although there were some big ones), being outside of any alliances and unions, as is now, and to pretend how "Turks enemy" ) Since we have love stories and also military cooperation between those battles, also unlike many others bigger genetic material sharing with Turks but also cultural (I'm always surprised how many our words and dishes Turks use)) not to mention wolves it is obvious that such is our stronger point and something to exploit... if great film about Ankara battle with some love stories inside and twist about our knights being "sexy" in film, instead of Kosovo battle was made in the 80s, probably we would be in much better situation as country today, guess... so the time will come to do that and one of the results will be beutiful new "race", Serbo-Turk Turks wouldn't even notice if less than 3 million Serbia males all marry Turkish girls

jokes which are true and no joke in fact aside (because it will be like that) i'll not post many satirical material (unless somebody joins forum to laugh about) but want to add this photo (great one who ever made it) which raised a lot of "memes" and laughs due to its compositon I put it only without any words as funny photo and who doesn't understand in background is Greek guardist in traditional clothes (during official visit, I guess). So, because this is most interesting relations today in "region" (Balkan) but there is no explosivity there and will be alright, so lets just laugh about photo, it will solve... ) (no more from me on that for now)

[Ale]

ahem, to add... to understand world and especially some of its particularities and "regionalities" you really have to have deep knowledge of menatlity and history. That's why I'll rarely write about Sweden for example let alone some more distant parts. of course one should never generalise as wherever you look people are different and under diverse influences, but some sort of mentality can be "generic" even in humoristic way...

i don't dare to claim knowledge about Turk mentality, country being "huge" and diverse, hence i laughed about missing some points while writting about Turk romantic sentiment (but I sense pure love there))... But at this place and moment to get back to something I already talked about... international poll and "experiment" showed that Greeks are one of the most "proud" nations, if not on top. (in some self-image way) Mine experience and interaction with them (without being some traveller but been there from north to southern tip) is of similar conclusion and they, even when quiet, "record" everything around and sometimes react accordingly when you do not expect, pay you back Remember when i intentionally joked one Greek on historical subjects, laugh and alright until something came out of him and he said (needlesly) "you didn't even know to write before we taught you" (in early middle ages, his idea) ...every tribe and nation is different in some way in that sense, even if geographically close.... we for example have some greatness "meme" (meaning something that repeats historically in uneven frequencies) but (in Scythian tradition) somehow know inside that nobody thinks really great about us and that we "make impact, short lived empire and go fight among ourselves or change location", do not create long lasting civilisations and have that auto-satirical element of nomads with desire to be seen more favorable in some heads.... .... i think Stefan, "black knight", story shows that very well on historical example with helping Turks, helping Sigi and in the end you get nowhere, evaluating "self/tribal/country-interest" BUT great Anatolian toponym stayed there for long, great legacy of Stefan and how Turks loved him.... ;

as noted, no generalisations and with dose of humor.... that's why I, in both threads where I was most active (other being medieval "translations"), dared to look deeper into some sources, trying to catch when Greek medieval writter was "offended" for example, when he "admired" Serb army, when Turk wrote something out of "respect for strong enemy", when his words were missunderstood in sources etc. etc. i always have time and will to add something and entertain distant reader i.e. explain some posts, but eventually i'll have to go out of this subject and find another topic... bye and ciao ) play the game, but rarely now.

[Ale]

besides.... i did go a bit "political" though i claimed that i dislike political talks i think my recent posts are more cultural and personal than political, no joke

can't get "Turkey" out of my head, to add another thought and something more closer to today times than Stefan ; (if king Peter wasn't close enough) ...great "poker player" and (successful) political "board game player", Miloš Obrenović... with his "Turkish turban" (on some pics) and awareness that Turks would rather see that head on stick, he reached some "thunderstruck" moment in time and managed to liberate "country" almost without much blood in almost surgical precission operations, unlike (hero) Kara George Turks liked him (some say he also liked Turkish women)) and was alright guest afterwards in Stambol.... yeah, he was authoritarian, corrupt but that's another part, my point is about "Turkey and us" other part is about us and unability to reach "normal government" inside ; (Turks didn't influence that)

i don't know, writting probably for regional public, but also why not here in moment we have to use chance to revaluate our concept of Turkey, dig in any mental "war axes" in ground and strengthen personal ties, finally give them love they want as nation

Although we do not have a common border, we see Serbia as a neighbour

...said one Turkish official from Abdullah Gül administration during visit some years ago.... some claim that Gül and people around him were "founders" of "neo-Ottoman" idea, but do not worry Bulgaria jokes aside, we as a country should give them more time and patience to express themselves and we would see that they do not mean no harm as people and country... we can look at past and learn from good examples. Particular politicians will come and go, but it is for us (ready to sign that whenever) biological/emotional relationship (is there any other country where all females are called "Turkey" out of pure love) and more culturaly close "gold mine" in future

unprovoked but insipred by some Hex' words, suddenly felt huge urge to write it all.... but lets finish now. no "anti" for Turkey and great support for their (big) similar minded part and youth. Cant believe how i matured on that issue any interaction with new members from there welcome, all others do not mind my chance to say here... ;

[Ale]

so, these days we are celebrating national day (it concides with "Valentine day" + few days, because we are important) related to Kara George's uprising in 1804 and some other law documents later in history... Greeks wouldn't accept but we were first, though Greeks are right that they de jure were first independent (alright we were first just because our rebels had luxury to cross border and arm in Habsburg lands not because we are greatest heroes))

of course in modern world more than ever "independence" seems as increasingly unsustainable concept/ideal/idea when you add negative social-biological tendencies, weak to non-existant geopolitical situation/position, lot's of uncertainities regarding future, you get idea even more... but I always remember events and people who died for ideals or out of heroism.

on top of all troubles do I need to read articles and reader's comments in Greek and Turkish online editions, while trying to get out of crisis and trying mating with Turkey .... in this "holy-days" I'm thinking that all those parts of much bigger (numerically humanoid above all) need "Black knight" film more than ever and whole Stefan life story defeated to see how many Greeks comment about "they didn't consider us human" and how many Turks comment "they wanted us all exterminated" while in reality Greeks and Serbs used Turks (and Turkopiles) in armies prior to annexation, we both mated with them, sultan from my film was "half/quarter Greek" as well Evrenos one of the commanders behind "Sirpsindigi" events, we both helped them defeat us and annex us etc. etc. ) re-read history....

once again, might be fool but really believe in friendship among (it was once called in Greek) Balkan (Rumelia) and Anatolia (Asia minor) people and that we are great mutual love material.... of course you can call me a fool as well. But I'll finish subject on this day of celebration of fight turned (or will turn) into friendship ) ...next time you see me i'll probably return to happier Scythia times with new and exciting findings Reading comments on both sides (not numerous but still...) really bit of calm and hope from me, it's holiday all 3 of us like which didn't separate us forever...

[Ale]

i'm sorry if "ruining" Hex' "different kind of thread" ) (but "open", understood) but a bit more fun and picture, before I go... ;

i didn't know much, but looking for some other things previous days, i've seen that (as it was probably case in comment by some youtube user on our song above) some "memes" like "Serbs look like Turks" were around internet for some time, pairing Turk rural people and some Serb rural people on pics for fun and probably laugh only... in that sense - without intention to "feed the debate" - unrelated I also independently found this picture of some Iranian rural folks (from some tribe unknown to me, they have many tribes...).... let me look, what that mister has on his head.... uhmm.. (from this angle looks like some "traditional" Serb hat, hence joke btw)

it's all light spirited, but in serious tone it is not some joke at all, considering ancient history and that Iranic origin might be very realistic, but for Croats also ; I talked extensively about it already and one interesting detail from experts on Old Persian/Iranic languages says that in some ancient times it was common for -SR letter combo to change to -HR combo in talk and written script in old Iranic dialects, making it double interesting about possible same origin of Hrv and Srb tribe. That's one aspect other is - as one can see on map few posts above, based on genetic/DNA analisys - Serbs today in concrete have less dominant Slavic R1a haplogroup than, for example modern Hungarians, Romanians etc.... so one can laugh as much as wants in some "memes" (and it is funny) but there is part of scientific truth and chance behind it all (plus living among Turkic people for long before migration).... since old Slavs considered Scyths-Sarmatians (by some sources, but also Greeks and Romans in a way) "tribe of giants" and we have enough sources to confirm that many our medieval nobility was unusually tall (crowned with incredible height of emperor Dušan) it also adds to possibility of sources/origin being true...

nonetheless we are sexy and smart as Turks and Iranians are, so no offense for the jokes (having genteical diversity by research) don't know about Croats as they claim that they are Goths... or Gog and Magog, I forgot .... picture for fun, do talk anything if you wish....

[Ale]

free today (but attending some birthday later) and since I mentioned it, here is only short paragraph from otherwise long works by modern German scientists from Jena, town... only about language, not about tribes but interesting in our tribal way:

Elsewhere in Iranian, however, the evidence points to a development *sr > hr inall contexts rather than *sr > *θr, and thus we can easily assume that *tansra-yielded tanhra- > *tãhra- > *tahra- which then developed quite parallel to *hazah-ra- ‘thousand’ > MP, Parthian hz’r, Sogd. z’r, Khot. ysāru etc. For initial position,compare the following cases: 1)*srautah- > *hrautah- > OP rauta ‘river’ > MP, Parth. rwd, Sogd. rwt, NP rōd. 2)*sraxwa- > *hraxwa- ‘corner of mouth?’ (= OIA srákva-) > Armenian LW erax‘mouth’, Persian rox, Pashto rāx/-rxo ‘cheek’, Bal. rakk ‘lip’ (cf. pakkag ‘ripe’ <*paxwaka). 3)*sraba- > *hraba- > Pashto raw-, Shughni rāv- ‘to suck’ ... < IE *srebʰ- ‘to sip,to slurp’

not expert on issue and many things are above my knowledge, but super interesting theories... we are talking "lingustical events" dating to some periods centuries BC in general. Might be true and Serbs and Croats might be living example in today world of such hypothesis (as tribe names)... interestingly enough one unrelated work by "Czech or Saxon Serb" scientist from days when sceince wasn't as advanced and not knowing all this about Iranic languages (some XIX or early XX c, I forgot and not important to check now) proposed that Serb derive name from some (he imagined it as Slavic word) "to sip or to suck, slurp etc." - funny enough it is mentioned in some form in this work... However, most likely Serb(v)s and Cr(v)oats do not have Slavic word in basis of tribe name, but proto-Indo-Iranian-European related to "serve, protect", my and some others proposition based on Serb migrations and being often in service of others, confirmed by geographical mentioning and positions through centuries (already talked about...) It is not exact science, just propositions with very reliable percent of chance which objective people in range from England to Germany and Russia alike mentioned in their works, making our ancestors "super cool"

considering exact science, modern DNA researches were helpful for us combined with old theories show that there is something unusual in our tribes, but didn't change anything about Serbo-Croat being properly classified as Slavic, what it is... genetically we are (as Bulgarians) not so Slavic, but it doesn't change our ties with Russia/Turkey/Sweden etc. and science is not political tool. so yes, linguistically we are "Slavic" as well as Hungarians today are "Uralic" (or whatever their scientist classify their language as...) but we both are not genetically either of that in most part of today population

in short - we are of Scythian/Iranic origin (not to be mixed with Persia with whome we had wars)), to many foreigners we are looking like Turks, with more Albano-Greek genetic material today than Polish-Slavic, but very Slavic and "brothers of Russians", "Swedish lost relatives" ........ makes sense some science should be approached with open mind and accepted. Ready to say - while many do not understand - that we (and Croats) have the most proof (except some Caucasian, Iranian, Anatolian etc. tribes) by sources of all European nations to accept at least part of Iranic ancestry....

regarding Turkey and Turks - it is cultural (in some percent genetical too) thing and obviously, despite historical wars, one do not mimic those they hate passionately (as we mimic-ed Turks in some language forms, dishes and musical expressions...) Finally - talked with some males I know and generally Serbs do have sexual attraction to Turk females, Arabic, Iranian and their "moves" (even if not talked openly), which is good thing for future....

[Ale]

...small paragraph from Turkish online press today, by respected mister Turkish journalist, mister Aktaş - unimprtant name but to name source out of nicety )

Although some call it the age of space, the present age is still unnamed. According to Western political thought, the economic development of countries will conclude with unprecedented prosperity and peace around the world.

The highest rates of suicides, however, belong to those countries that are economically most developed. During the coronavirus pandemic, Western developed countries performed poorly. etc. etc.

grim and bad subject per se and while I like any "philosophy" in political comment, I checked details by international organizations... maybe mister aimed at fact that "Europe is region with most suicides" while something we traditionally called Levant fares very good in such sad statistic. Hats off, Turkey in that sense, from a country not in top but with much higher rate per 100,000 than you, dear...

however details show that top of sad list doesn't belong to "most economically developed countries" and is mixed in its unfortunate way, with many African having higher rates than amny European etc. Sadly, top in Europe belongs to mostly ex-Soviet countries (which is sad because they are our "relatives") while most developed having significantly smaller (at least officially)... and there is no rough line there, so countries of all kind are higher or lower generally...

something I noticed, minor and sad subject... recommend ex-Soviets more Turkish pop songs in life. In any way - no idea why I posted this here, just to say "hello" today but anyone likes anything should join - wish Turkey reaching our homicide levels and us reaching Turkish suicide level for start -) (generally we are both not drastic in those bad statistics in both cases and we will help each other personally and culturally to achieve even better....ultimately I'll stop mentioning your country i like once, like "statistics and philosophy", welcome very much country is pearl)

[Ale]

today something else....

regarding my several times used joke about "turkey" being term for female out of affection here because Turk miladies made impression through centuries on us... it is good one, but joke. Based on Turkish pronounce of "türki-" which transformed into our (similar sounding) "ćurk-i-a" first letter being specific for us and sounds similar to Turkish "tü-" combo... in reality exact origin of word in our language is unknown, some even say it is onomatopoiec word, some related to "kurka" in many languages with some Serb pronouncement mutation etc. Of unknown time of starting its usage here... But it is sweet joke, isn't it, plus I'm 100% sure that Turk girls/females did look both sexy and exotic/colourful starting from XIV century compared to our, relatively conservative and uniformed, females back in those days... one of the reasons why my "fictional" black knight in story run into several troubles and even confrontations with own countrymen regarding fate of Turkish girls in story and ready to draw a sword for her...

as it's mostly used now for "shallow" woman - but not necessary offensive like horse or pig isn't for man in talk - last thing I wanted is joke to be misunderstood ; ...you, Turk miladies, are actually our future and it's best idea on this planet... )

that cleared as joke - and not scientific linguistical detail from me - here is some "Osmanlian" press database in beta form, not useful to me https://beta.wikilala.com/Home due to language but it may grow and include other languages, but doubt... no chance to find anything medieval there as it is prints, but one could potentionally find something interesting for our history in XIX century once it is over... more details in "translations" thread about my interests, but after learning Stefan Lazarević role in Osman-Turk history, not only Ankara but also Çamurlu battle etc, as I said on start of this thread it is even more interesting having father's family line from around city of his birth.... but maybe I'm Turk?

anything combining "wiki" prefix and Turkish subject extension makes me nervous - as I presented few posts above in link where Turkish "wikibooks" article showed that we are not recognized as country by republic of Turkey (now called Ottoman empire). "Lala" is, btw, their old word for "tutor" or "teacher", like one Lala Sahin Pasha (more info in "translations" thread as well) who surely tutored king Vukašin not to drink and drive troops into Turkish trap in the same time.... see you, too bad Turks do not play much OG and similar subject games that much, but let's hope we'll get some members from there... do not be discouraged by my language and jokes.

[Ale]

last one for now, but i'm interested.... tomorrow morning I'm getting Sinopharm revaccinated, btw. Had no complications except sleepy feelings first week or less... but it's not over yet and i might die.... once the "corona-crisis" is over and at least 30% of population in all countries is vaccinated and you all can go to your orgies and normal life - hope you all remember heroes like me taking it in our body for humanity.... ;

https://www.dailysabah.com/opinion/colu ... sons-facts

lady Merve is my fav writter on "Sabah", she likes history obviously and is pleasant looking -) .... pro-Erdogan papers, no idea why I read it, because I wan't to get picture about situation probably, but all English editions are now in same line. Back to lady Merve's text, second part of her text compares mister Erdogan with 3 sultans. Lets see their names and dates in relation to our history: a) Selim I - not so important name to us, as we have been alrady conquered... don't know much about crimes against our population ; b) Abdulhamid II - the one who signed our independence after 74 years of struggle, no trouble. He also disliked "San Stefano" Bulgaria as our politicians of the time... c) Mahmud II - some say he recieved Kara George's head BUT the one who gave autonomy to Miloš and Serbia and signed it in 1830, no trouble... also disliked janissaries as well as our politicians of the time...

all in all, not so bad camparison to us, doesn't hurt much and is "favorable" to our state, dear Merve. (their papers don't have comment section)) Waiting further texts from her.... i have different vision of Turkey, but it is as it is and wish Merve the best... .... ultimately, if other tendencies win in that country political circles and it comes to that moment when they will have to conquer us again and one of the usual death penalty used in region (Turks did not use it much in Serbia compared to other places, btw) is about to be re-established my only hope is that they will be gentle

also this interesting line from milady Merve:

The historians say that the Kemalist elite of the new republic erased Ottoman history and effectively silenced the Ottoman historiography, almost rewriting it, particularly the last centuries of the empire.

but do not forget Kemalist general Ömer Halis Bıyıktay who put some light on 1402 Ankara battle events and is great source for us, so I disagree... but she said "last centuries in particular", so she didn't mean they rewrote that, i guess. "black knights" and "gazi" story is true, hopefully. Great for movie and Stambol cinemas as i see it....


so - lots of humor, some satire, some interest and some seriousness with many good idea and mutual promotion, mostly out of desire to share my new impressions... hope Turks get interested in older things as well and help our historians a bit more. Politics and Turkey's position with many diverse neighbours and strong religious backing is as is... we are, by size and social tendencies, more in struggle for survival. do not mind my many posts related to your country (I care about you) and do join, though I think "Black knight" film is not gonna sell well in Turkey for now best wishes from neighbor in further developments.... i'll pause (another reminder to look at "translations" thread if you can help, welcome)

[Ale]

... talking to medical staff it seems like whole vaccine was a joke... it is questionable is any country will rate it high and I'm not gonna do tests after I was double dosed ("for nothing"), but foreign travel aside also nobody really knows how efficient it is... honestly dear, i don't give a damn about anything anymore. World is a farse, becoming increasingly elitist at places, authoritarian in other places and entrenched in various "interests" and animosities, like ever... Vaccine - which i "had" to take as it was my duty - is just small symbol of all the farse and mess world is... -)

i like historical photography, already said that in another thread (in that sense i'll not use this one for that much) and want to finish whole subject for long. Subject in which I mentioned Turkey so many times - as Hex said all that is never gonna happen just ideals - but i want to finish here with 2 photos from our last war with "Turkey"... about our delusions and why people died and crippled themselves. Look i'm all for doing things right, i'm all for cultural heritage (too bad most beautiful of all monuments, Dušan's unique church, did not survive turbulent times), i'm all for inter cultural cooperation and all that, but two photos by foreign journalists (French, British etc) following our troops during first Balkan war.... first our troops entering Skop(l)je, North Macedonia now, once our "empire capital". On faces of our officers in first line one can see there was no flower throwing, enthusiasm and crowds greeting liberators on streets Self explanatory photo... second is from Prizren, also town Dušan liked and have chosen as final resting place, which didn't survive but we found precious bones of him, luckily for historical science. Also self explanatory, nationality of very poor people is not written on their forehead, but hardly they lived great under previous empire and even more hardly they were ready to throw flowers to our soldiers marching by

maybe feeling down and tired now, but it's important to be objective in historical themes. nonetheless, Turkey will be great for us, sincere hope and medieval cooperation movies for example, like "sexy black knights" story as another example, could potentially beat any other story if properly written and directed in "hollywood style" but with more drama.... and did I mention some 50 millions of females before? (only some of them are free, mind that but there will be new growing up...) ...i'm finished but had to use these photos i like the most from first BW and last with "Turks". good luck to us all, again tired and sleepy after second dose - but think tired optimism is real... and we all have solid relations even now. I'm over with forcing Turkey around, but might continue with posting historical photos in new thread... it is safe to say that all my subjects did not attract new members, but hope all is interesting to read and someone might come about... at times I opened my heart as well, no false flattery bye.

[HexCode]

One of history's lessons is that... anthropology holds the key to understanding human collectivities. Tribes become nation-states. Nation-states mutate into imperial societies. Imperial societies eventually disintegrate. What else is new ?

Elites come and go, but, pick any moment in time, no matter, some particular elites will be "around"; ditto for entrenched interests and collective animosities...

Practical... misanthropy isn't... murderous, far from it. It just "advises" (especially young) people to "make good use" of their private parts to exhaustion and not pay attention to this or that cultural or civilizational drumbeat (i.e., give the Zeitgeist the... middle finger).

Now, a Balkan example of collective identity "sentiments". When the Third Reich attacked the Greek forces defending a chain of forts (i.e., Metaxas Line), the "Bulgarians" were just... watching the unfolding attack. The Yugoslav 5th Army, ordered to defend their positions to the immediate west of the "Greeks", was "stabbed in the back" by "Macedonians" who murdered many "Serb" officers, surrendered and thereby allowed the Third Reich forces to easily flank the "Greeks". At that time, "Macedonians" felt "Bulgarian". Later on. "Macedonians" rejected "Bulgarianism" and embraced "Macedonianism" (I don't know about the mid-years "Titoism"). They even embraced... Alexander the Great. As for the "Albanian" minority around Tetovo, oh well...

Bottom line: human collectivities are generators of practical, every day conveniences, lots of nastiness and the occasional happy-go-lucky interlude. As for war and peace, there's always Tolstoy's epilogue...

[Ale]

appreciate opinion and words Hex i can go into details but we are "lonely" here and do not want to insist if you understand...I mostly finished the subject but this is my big interest as "neighbour", and reading Greek press today as they prepare to mark 200 years since their revolution, there was article about who will attend celebration, who will not... Macron will come, Putin will not, Charles of England maybe etc. ) feel sorry for Greeks round year in bad times - hope our ruler will come, if invited at all Ideally would be nice Turkish president to be there, but I hope he sends his "letter" at least as he did to us 2 weeks ago calling us "friendly people"... situation is not great in the wolrd due to pandemic and geopolitics and even less great in your region of "Levant" so Greeks are celebrating this round number in such situation...

i remebered me attending some events and exhibits in 2015 marking 200 years since "elegant" Miloš uprising which brought no independence but autonomy and mostly finished big battles forever. No guests, no pompous markings, nothing... One of my photos with picture on building with exhibit back then. Big letters represent legendary Miloš speach at start of uprising: "Here I am, here you are." Words "war to the Turks" with which he finished short but effective speach were not added.... some say he actually said "love to the Turks!" .... don't mind my memories and looking back at it with humor, congrats to all and hope we - in situation when future looks very uncertain - all, plus Bulgarians, will once look at it relaxed and with lots of Turkish wives around us ;

[HexCode]

I can only speak for myself here, of course. Empirical evidence points to this topic's "loneliness" in spades.

Once again, my favorite, relevant passage:

A 19th century, Continental European professor gave one more fiery lecture in an empty university auditorium. Some said he mistook the silence of the non-existent audience to have been an unmistakable sign of a lecturer's triumph which had left the students speechless. Others speculated that the professor was, indeed, extremely happy orating in deserted auditoria...

[Ale]

yes, you are pardoned, may retreat to own quarters and works, good luck.... regarding last post I'm not accepting any ideas and jokes that Miloš looks like Turk on that photo, nope.

as i said before, and that should be one of notions here, said prior to "black knight" mini-series - while some of my sentiments are old - it wasn't fruitless as subject and i've learned a lot in past month or so, priceless things historically I'd probably not know, like that manual from 1888 or how "big" and "sexy" we were in middle ages ; ... and i'm reading "Sabah" as well listening great pops and all. Generally some things crystalized and (as always had doubts) I'm starting to definitely doubt that my old "countryman" (via father line) Stefan would break 3 times through Timur's best and get an arrow in arm at Ankara to try to save a man who allegedly ordered "his father's head choped off" many other things, not fruitless, most seriously. Who want's some details from me in serious tone, look at "translations", maybe you catch something interesting without changing history and many crimes that happened through turbulent times, to humans and Dušan's bones/church as well ; ... but we on both sides get over it more than once and there was a row of blood, a row of love, a row of respect and in 1913 we became allies, till today. Short Serbo-Osmano-Turk history, briefly to be understood.

small course on having a laugh with Turkish girl, for our language users though ) ...they have problems to say words like "ljubav" (love) and any other with letters "lj", "nj" and combos of some letters i forgot... ; give it a try with mentioned word, if true but they have many dialects, if it fails to produce laugh and trouble.... ; wish i am younger, but i'm not that old, hopefully.

wasn't fruitless, no joke. As for "memes" and jokes, but also serious comments from some papers i reserve right to come back here to post, without public or not, see you. I hope Turkey and us enter west (-ern Balkans) together. We are already on the east and stay there forever even after enterance... historically we were greater pals than you think. (and look-alikes)

[Ale]

must say this also. People like Hex, being far away maybe do not understand... to some others, like eventual Turk readers (sadly few are around, always welcome) it might look like mockery... i'll add one posts more to show it's not mockery and that it is genuine - and then I'll not mention Turkey for few days

why i honestly like Turkey, among other things - due to its imperfection and charm... photo from few days ago (not mine, their) from Stambol, city of 3 Serbias, soon maybe 4 People eating in street full of small, charming and tasty restaurants... 1.) street dog looking at visitors, i like animals too, to me it is cute and it is great that Stambolians and other in country care about them 2.) medium sized hole in planks on platform (not hole but probably some leftover of previous construction) and potential risk for guests (after few "rakija" esp.) breaking their leg, or worse, hopefully not but it happens everywhere...

feels like home, like it and there is charm in imperfection, there is feminine beauty and there is potential like, for example, mutual film studios with stories in waiting ; and much, much more...one more post here soon when i compose it - with maps - about Turkey and us and to prove there is no mockery, though I like good laugh - this is from a friend, take it as that....

[Ale]

here in shorter version, than planned ) ...am i really in position to make mockery of Turkey? not only due to size, but in many/any other way.... first map, more "reder" the region, the more sexier the population, of course ... so it is about GDP nominal, pcpp or whatsover - maybe not the most accurate by year, but clear and even if it changed a bit. Turkey, except Kurdish parts, is less red than some of our parts, and we have only one region less red than Turkey as whole, but that's also fake due to lots of "overpaid" bureaucracy there...

map and table two - must be some lie from those not liking us yeah, some would say this is not "Europe in traditional sense", but not be detailist ; of course it is partly relative but Turkey and us are in the same group, even identical score like twins in many other stats Turkey slightly in front etc. (in number of rich people hugely in front, example)... why I say it is relative - because countries like Georgia (aka Gruzija not to be mixed with American one) are for at least 10-15 years scoring very good, but are in bottom of some GDP and similar economic stats, not "booming"... this is lie because I read Turkish papers and Turkey is best for business

anyway, no mockery and now proved to people not knowing details and to Turks. We count on you and miladies over for now, one picture worth 1000s of words (some say) and have hope in your population and our prospectives....... call me had to finish in this statistical tone, for clearness, my dear... do not mind - any reader from there - if I was unpleasant or mentioned you too much at moments, it was because i was writing something....

[HexCode]

One more round... From Father Time's Jurassic archives:

... but when i lived in Szeged (large city near the Serbian border) in 1990s, i usually visited Vojvodina/Vajdaság, northern region of Serbia, and all cultural differences disappeared when we started to drink rakija / pálinka (aka schnapps, brandy, drink of hell)

AND

Back in 2001, I came across two very attractive girls (in their mid-20s) in Montreal, Canada. I chatted them up for the usual biological / anthropological reasons ! It turned out that the parents of both girls had immigrated to Canada from the Ukraine.

The parents of one of the girls used to live in Lviv (L'viv, Lvov, Lwow). They were Ukrainian Greek Catholics (Uniates) whose mother tongue was Ukrainian and admirers of Stepan Bandera's legacy. The other girl's parents used to live in Donetsk. They were Russian Orthodox whose mother tongue was Russian. Although not communists, these parents were proud of the "Great Patriotic War".

I asked the girls how come they were "best friends" (their words, not mine). Well, they said, all we had to do was to take a good look "around us". Compared to the Anglo-Canadian and French-Canadian "ways", their "inherited" differences seemed insignificant, almost ridiculous...

I, too, have personally experienced such things. Here's my overall take:

Ordinary folks, psychically unmolested by the wooden, triumphalist language of imperial society, great power or nation-state multidimensional expansionism, can have a peaceful good time with one another, most of the time... In my books, the "horrors" of, say, honor crimes pale in comparison with the human carnage historically associated with millions of humans ostensibly acting under the influence of "higher" ideas / ideals...

By the way, I, too, love rakija, irrespective of slight geographical differences in taste and pronunciation...

[Ale]

By the way, I, too, love rakija, irrespective of slight geographical differences in taste and pronunciation.

i personally don't even like it, but drink it becuse everyone has it and is cheap, available whisky is, for example, much more of nicer taste personally...

on humans, however not sure if i'd agree, too me very dangerous creatures and biggest source of annual harm and fatalities to humans ordinary or elites alike. Sometimes elites - like historical example from more authoritarian times of Bayazit/Mehmed 1 and Stefan in both cases - cooperate and respect each other more than ordinary folks, even unable to understand their traditions or things that divide them, or which "make them close" in their perception of things with those who share same/similar traditions... but I'm not elitist, on the contrary, just fact and would hardly give this as good example in XXI century though I think that "feudalism" is growing globally. Concept of elite is also higly dubious - certainly drug lord or prostitution ring lader is considered "elite" in many societies as long as "money talks" but not to me.

economy is important so i dedicated few posts to it. especially today when "eyes see, eyes want" increasingly. problem in elites is that, when they notice that they are increasingly moving away from "the base" would rather play on card of either external/internal enemy than actually trying to solve problems in society... and that's what leads to further dehumanisation and massive crimes, only latently present in societies where for example "prostitutes, cheap work-force, less fortunate or less paid" are seen as goods, just monete or objects able to die ; .... look, most important thing is that we can talk eternaly but things were like that since tribal times or first greater empires... and that's why gangs, bandits, crime entered historical scene.... "my problem" is simply that I see many things around that I'd not like to happen to me (including crimes you mentioned) and mention them.

about humans and philosophy in short - Alexander's name is present and widespread globally, Aristotle's not so much ; ... so i avoid it and hardly any of my words in whole thread were especially deep and unique... although I do accept that my sudden (or old but not realised) love of Turkey and copperation are maybe unique in my society ....they are just scared to admit that everyone would kiss Turk miladies feet or watch a film about "black knight" in Ankara jokes aside, I think the way I presented things here and gave ideas about that country and us is only good, visionary - from relations and love to potential for business and becoming closer in every way. Turkey specifically and I insist

about Szeged - lastly - no idea who character from your posts is, but it is, once popular place to visit and buy some "salamas" to sell here - it is now out of reach due to corona-crisis and due to walls "defending Europe" see you around and surely we will talk more, i already broke my promise not to mention Turkey for few days country i like.

[randowe]

Maybe you should create a blog on serbo-turk history... or write a book

[Ale]

thanks...or script (and i'd desire - direct) a film about bloody "black knight" to make own triumph in Stambol (and other cities) cinemas, with chance of elevating at least 6-7 previously unknown Turk actresses out of anonymity and launch them in the stars, marrying at least one in the process...

anyway, today is Miladies day, congrats to all among us here and have post idea... strangely during the middle ages femicides were rare in our parts and we had no king a la Henry 8. that's good thing, plus both our concubines in time of despotate - Stefan's sis and Đurađ daughter - returned from Turks unharmed and contionued lifes as nuns, small praise to Turks and Timur (if legend is true). What happened to numerous anonymous and non-noble only Turks know, but genetical research showed that they did not rape that much as some fantasize

anyway, wanted to mention this above all.... regarding our friend's mention of "honor crimes and femicides"... our epic folk narrator or poet left a song about phenomenon early, it was obviously not muslim speciality nor tradition as well as covering head, being under husband's manus and all. Interestingly first and naturally earliest version of epic song ends bad for a noble's wife who had sex with "Turk" and she was killed by brothers, stabbed to death... later version changes the ending and her husband forgives her - even though she sided with a "Turk" during their final duel in which he kills abductor, and takes her back to castle to live together again... It is epic about some fictional hero called Banović Strahinja, some try to tie him to some historical figure but not with some clear proof, because other epic song mentiones him among killed in Kosovo battle, so he maybe never lived or not being figure some try to tie him with.... Anyway, there is even film with - I'm glad because he is legend and charismatic actor - Franco Nero in main role internationally translated as "The Falcon", not the great film and really lacks "strength", good narrative, visuals and proper historical equipment of that Serb time. Nonetheless, great that foreign actor tried to interpretate such idea, to me weak film but legend there.... perfect time to add to line Hex mentioned, something noticed early by "collective" folks poets (probably some individual changed poem later, though) and regretable that practice ever existed in any culture...

hence, in second part of "black knight" - just to mention - i used idea with twist about Turkish girl having husband and small kids back in Anatolia and her old lover, a Serb knight, comes back to make things complicated... she rejects him to save honor and out of repest for new husband (but likes him, old lover) but husband learns about their relation, and is not savage man. Plus, "black knights" are now considered heroes in part they live in.... lots of twists and clashes, conflicts in personal way and he is daved by Turkish huband after some nobles wanted to execute him. Husnband noticed great sorrow and misery in his wife about prosepects of our knight being killed... He saves him, forgives the wife and decide that they should live as three, together, sharing the wife ...... alright maybe I joked about last line, but story and twists is great and am working on ideas for pleasure, whole idea based on historical events.

Congrats to miladies again, best wishes to those in Turkey and do take us seriously ) Yeah, language is problem, culture not that much at all - we eat kebabs, "smoke like Turks" and drink like Ataturks ... don't mind joke and love you, serious about all potential in projects.

[Ale]

for historical and pop culture interest - without steering away from any serious discussions in this thread which is open in nature so one could expect really anything - I made small collage of actors and actresses Turks (pardon, Ottomans)) had chosen to play our figures in recent, 2020, mini-series about fall of Constantinople, "Rise of empire: Ottomans". Did not watch series, but I am interested and will look for ways to take a look. No high expectations consider it all "romantical-fictional-semihistorical" fun as much as our "Strahinja or Kosovo battle" films were etc. I'd approach it differently and "stun" them all with story and characterisations and with true history, alas.... ;

So mister Turkish actor on top left played our unfortunate ruler Đurađ Branković - named Baki Davrak, on right side Kazakh born actress Eva Dedova played his daughter Katarina, and last but not least lovely Tuba Büyüküstün played concubine Mara, in lower left of the collage... love Tuba as well as many other Turkish actresses and intentionally gave two pictures of her, one when she was youngish starter, for fun. As for historical roles judge yourself. Problem is that Đurađ aka George was well over 70 during the fall of Constantinople and was "large and tall" man (not extremely like Dušan) and Turks gave a role to mister Baki who is - with due respect - not tall at all, on the contrary... as said, if you watch, do not give huge importance to what lines are in there, that's all semi-fiction and not deep science.

concubine Mara, must say, was a huge contrast to concubine Olivera Lazarević to our state and interest... while Olivera's person saved Serbia and Bayazit never took offensive action and even enabled prosperity to the land and her brother was "hero" to Turks, Mara witnessed attacks on state, blinding of two brothers by Turks and hunt on own father who fled west and after George's death in the end and father's death joined Mehmed II court, probably supported his "Sirpsindigi" i.e. annexation while she tried to save some persons and lands, true. She is more "important" for Ottoman history than ours, sadly as events from 1371 till 1389 probably sealed our fate already...

nonetheless - my historical notes aside, given to be understood to foreigners and Turks why Branković family is sometimes properly sometimes mythicaly regarded as traitors among Serbs, but those are long gone events - great love to Tuba and all female actors there and support for Turks trying to film older history, including our figures there. Interesting detail that "stepmothers" of both Mehmed 1 & 2 were "our" noble women, Mara was half-Greek i.e. Romean, Olivera from both Serb parents. With huge hope that events of "Sirpsindigi" 1371, Kosovo, Ankara battles and similar will once also attract interest, be filmed in cooperation, because they are cinematic and that young Turks will once see and like action (with love) film about "superhero" black knights, Turks never seen before in their history as Ottomans admited themselves... But I mentioned that before, didn't I? Respect to Tuba and all beauties there, every one of different flavour and charm, our sisters... I'm not insisting, i'm loving the subject and, since this is in part historical forum, this is alright as theme here. maybe I look like "hunting Turks" with my latest posts and will not succeed but generally isn't it all fun to any reader... I accept foreigners do not understand it and how much we love eachother, but that's why I lowered the number of posts here and post only if something is interesting.... but let's give it a deserved break, or not... i accept forum is not growing in numbers due to me

[Ale]

... before I go must say I'm expeditious when things are urgent. mentioned series are Netflix and many has it here i could even get dowloaded versions with added translations. Watched 4 episodes ~40 mins each 123 and last, out of 6... ) sorry, it is more documentary, different than what I imagined is Turkish soap, so no melodrama and tears there ... with respect to Turks and nice productions.

before impressions something else, probably known but is nice line - basically siege and fall of Constantinople was battle by "Serb stepson", Mehmed and "Serb halfson" via mother line, last Romean emperor Constantine XI.... aren't we cool, best medieval tribe that was once ; ...considering impressions, satisfied with those who scripted what I've seen so far in few ways. Mara is presented the way I see her, Ottoman agent and somebody who was in clash with father and other around him. So nothing romantic there for our side, generally. Look one must understand girl - she was not even 20 when she join harem, world of Ottomans full of "sexual pleasures" and their political philosophy and died with them like queen Anna and other foreign queens died with Serbs, though she could have returned to Venice etc. etc. As epsiode showed - hats of and thanks for Serbian court scene, btw - even George, father, did not trust her... old George, Đurađ, was shortly but properly presented as one not truly cooperating with the Turks and ploting till death.

other impressions, "Serbian miners" in series were likely Saxon miners, catholics from Novo Brdo town, we have source that Mehmed requested best sappers and Saxons from NB were best, town found its place on fra Mauro's map... likely George sent also some heavy cavalry from Serbia but they did not take part in battles maybe, logically, and protected rear doing nothing ; he also probably helped Mehemed financially sending some gold by obligation as he was "among richest men of Europe" by western sources. That much about him and Serb role in fall of "last Roman capital".

views from a "well informed" Serb viewer, some lines by historians (not related to us at all) I'd not support, many I do, as always.... when you look at things relaxed and critically isn't it nice that last "Roman" emperor (story started in VIII century BC, mind that) and the one who conquered it for Turks, were "our kids" in a way ... two more left, but i seen most important parts, I'll use the chance to admire Tuba's looks again when she is bathing "naked" in start of episode 3 and generally forgiveness to Mara, glory to Constantine, Đurađ (and his papa Vuk, not traitors), enigma to why Stefan was so respected by Turks wearing "dragon" necklace by then (except being dark armoured "badass") and respect to Turks for defeating us and not ruining it all and we have "cool" stories to tell .... love to their girls, nice sources about our history from Turkey and hope for a bloody Black knight as action film If you are to watch mentioned series ever, hope my lines are helpful, that's why I write....

[Ale]

...and, forgot important moment, Tuba sings in Serbian at one moment in episode, great love for that and she is relatively successful in that so only ours, Italian, Arabic, Greek and maybe old-Turkish etc. are only foreign languages heard in series ;

I wrote a lot of "lots" in past few months - combined with last posts in recommended translations thread here in pub - with humor, satire, seriousness, (few) politisations and even about love and pop songs - and mentioned one country 10+ size of own (size doesn't matter) but must make one relatively proper resume and conclusion, not final because there is always something new... nothing political, some issues in "Levant" are new to me as is my recent interest to see "what's cooking" with Greece and Turkey, at this moment both "friendly" and (i hope) supportive in some vision of "future" to us ; (no idea what future is, to be honest))

conclusion is about "recent" renewed purely historical interest in that country - I myself have decades long interest and hobby/popularization texts about older history myself - about past and popularization from various aspects from "army colonel letters to US army publication", via doctor dissertations to - most important globally - some of their historical series, documentaries and hopefully rich production films once, so - back to sentence - conclusion is, if not clear from so many posts with laughs, I did not see anything bad to us in examples I mentioned, all to this Netflix series. On the contrary in a way all mentioned work even popularize us and small country some potential watchers globally do not even know, or not know where it is at least We are privileged to be part (almost important) of early history of Turk empire and they did not hide that, mentioning us when appropriate or even more than appropriate, popularizing us... Realistically and apolitically one can say only thanks And if only 50% of all that is true - from Turkish flag and our battle, to our ruler being only pictured and played by actor in film-documentary besides two emperors, and to incredible line Ottoman army textbook allegedly had about our medieval soldiers, and it had it only ten years after our independence - again all I can say, as history lover, thanks. I found only respectful lines and something that make our history more interesting and remembered there, really grateful for what's there. Respecting (historical, forever hopefully) enemy is virtue and my impression is that Turkish recent authors showed it.... had to add this very serious and proper conclusion and look without any joke. Respect for not hiding our history in your works and keep it up )

that's sort of my conclusion and grade on all things I saw and read recently... now, politics is something different and of course since Dušan we had no war with Greece, so I can only say tensions and accusations are temporar thing, without escalations ; ....if it comes to that, make them impalement sticks sharp before enetering Serbia, Turks no really, serious about it, we all felt impacts of migrations for example so we are not far away...

of course both Greece and Turkey are great historically, pearls and chest full of stories, including those about our older history.... but Turkey is fun, fun to talk about too, girls are of special charm and "look in the eyes" (smart), plus Turkey is mentioning us a lot in that recent historical works, it's marketing best wishes to both in that sense, for someone who is even worse off as country I'm pro-Turkey in everywhere.... and 200% fan of Tuba, sister. Bye.

[Ale]

i already linked to "Sabah" my fav source for "smelling Turkish political aromas" and, to be fair to both, this is Greek paper I read sometimes for same reasons:

https://www.ekathimerini.com/opinion/11 ... he-future/

while Greek paper is more "anti-govt", the reason I look at it, as well as "Sabah", is not political, just because they were among first English sources I found and are pretty "readable" or interesting to me and to compare and look at their current state of affairs/relations.... Text above is written by VIP in papers, respected mister Papachelas, for example. Found some honest and not so flattering lines, as we are even worse as country in many respects and even have no bloody sea

anyway 2 - already linked to Turkish papers, just want some laughs for the end from todays column by respected mister Hakki Öcal:

https://www.dailysabah.com/opinion/colu ... -is-around

mister has almost satirical style, while probably dealing with serious subjects for his country, i respect that. but like this...

I challenge U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken to prove that one-third of the 170 House members – who wrote to him about Turkey’s “human rights troubles” – are capable of locating Turkey on the map.

The Greek Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis was happy to be persuaded by French President Emmanuel Macron and German Chancellor Angela Merkel into buying warplanes and tanks. (One can somehow understand a country of archipelagos and islands buying airplanes, but why on earth would it buy tanks? Against the Republic of North Macedonia, a country one-fifth of its size or against Turkey, a country six times bigger?)

you forgot Albania & Bulgaria, mister Hakki. Maybe there, you never know... and Turkey is 8 times bigger


...it proves that both countries have similar humor to us in some satirical way... no idea why i look at Greek and Turk columns, maybe some masochism but they are our sisters - Turkey for some music styles and cousine, Greece for how to successfully run a country and for how clerics look and behave and much, much more from both, culturally and genetically... (we are worst of all 3 "sisters", btw))

...alas. had obligation to share both sources here, if someone wants to look at daily news there... good luck, there was good line relating to our foreign polices and geopolitical issues for some last 10 years at least, almost political doctrine "if there is crisis in world just stick head in the sand like ostrich and repeat we are friend to all! we are friend to all!!"

personally? I'd give only love to Turkey and negotiate all including sharing border - or better - no border with her, if that's gonna make us closer to Tuba-s, Aleyna-s, Ilayda-s etc. etc. etc. because we are destined for eachother. I already talked a lot about that and it is doable thing but nobody asks me but this is last post for now, with my sources for news but they are just among first readable i found.... Following our political doctrine, good luck to both and love your "sexiness", sisters. Congrats to both for moving from "Balkan" finally and are now upgraded to being "Levant" officially best wishes and, while there is no need for message to Greece, we love and want Turkey here, must be said... ) truly bye now... and welcome to forum

[HexCode]

Yes, 100 members are very enjoyable. At the same time, however, the number of those who actively participate in the forum does not increase exponentially, but rather declines.

Well, this is the empirically observable trend. Never mind that "we" just sort of made it to 170 members...

One can always speculate that there're at least 10,000 "lurkers" out there religiously, but always silently, scouring these forums in search of morsels of wargame... wisdom, or at least, utility ! Sure, a little birdie just told me that 1,000,000 wargamers in the People's Republic of China are "hooked" on PGF big time. As "we" all know, the dark side of the moon is a... myth perpetuated by those who can't bring themselves to admitting that the... little birdie is always right, ... right ?

Finally, a little "related something" from my own "public" involvement corner:

[EPH] A "Community"... Revealing Survey
viewtopic.php?f=95&t=174&start=100#p8090

[Ale]

by the way - with serious tone - talking to Hex, why I find no interest in particular political talks... today line, unimportant and in "arts & culture" section talking about some Bosnian/Bosniak film about Srebrenica which Turkish TV cooproduced, from papers "Sabah":

In the film, director Jasmila Zbanic depicts the lead-up to the massacre of more than 8,000 Muslim men, women and children by Bosnian Serb forces...etc.

respect to victims and it is big war crime, word genocide is personally unimprtant, but addition in text do change factual state of things about that crime and war incident. Mistake or intention to add "women and children" to victims I don't take it hardly. As for particular legal term i.e. definition of genocide, as someone who in one period of life read law textbooks ; in broader definition of genocide every action, doesn't have to be killing, aimed at worsening economic, life, cultural position and conditions of some group could be considered genocide. This example could, Ottoman polices against Serbs (or Greeks or whoever) could, Allied indiscriminate bombings could, German and Austro-Hungarian shootings and hangings could etc. etc. So i have no particular problem with unimportant word, it's enough in broad definition to even taxate higher, close the churches/mosques, expulsion of some group to be considered "genocide" in some region or city. I am just against adding unhistorical lines to "make it worse" and politicise it... so i am mostly not talking because doubt people in majority have ability to look at own mistakes, mirror... considering this particular site, our current ruler/president tried to visit the site and monument few years ago, was stoned by some in crowd nor is anyone using word "genocide" in Serbia is forced to leave or anyhting. Unrelated to mass murders, personally would like Turkish president (and first lady, daughters. sons)) visiting ruined Dušan's church, temple in Belgrade and such, or donating to Serb communities in Kosovo, would be great victory for "humanity" ; ... current Turkish president (already aged) or any, unimportant ... or Germans investing in Kragujevac town and similar ; and respecting our victims (we had them even in near past, although being "bad guys" just like Turks had own victims, being "bad guys" during Ottoman rule and our uprisings etc. etc.) same goes to our politicians, but as said our ruler was there. And we should be against new countries in principle, except if huge majority of population wants to separate anywhere... we had our share of separations didn't we, including country we had no war and battles with - Montenegro.

reality check - some international agencies projections show that (possibly) we are, after Bulgaria, coutry in Balkan that could lose most population in next 30-40 years (and we even settled 100,000's of people from other areas, mostly Serbs, in last 30 years, didn't help)). And we are not even worst in Europe - so called Baltic states, even "success" Slovenia, Moldova are in worse position, some richer or poorer in EastE not far away... don't think "usual" politics, politicians and "interests" will solve that per se, so I talked about human relations, and change of perspective... where Turkey fits? Well in my book it is not just big, it's sexy, beautiful and relatively close.... so it's best advice, i personally wouldn't care if she is "liberal" or wants to "cover hair or read religious books" if we can be together - if it is son I give him name, if daughter she gives it

nothing to discuss and I'll not talk about near past nor come back to anything I said and you now understand why I don't talk current politics that much, just wanted to give you (Hex) one honest post on situation and my views and looked like avoiding your first posts... AND to present Turks and Azeris (for example, we have "sudden good relations" with them)) as good partners, in that sense biological, and lovable female populations I repeated it few times, so majority of my posts were in that sense, positive promotion to those unable to see them that way...

[HexCode]

Realpolitik ?

Do "Serbs" really desire to "erase" their "perceived badness"... overnight ? If so, easy. The Serbian State "must":

1) Join NATO.

2) Join the EU.

3) Adopt the Euro.

4) Adopt stridently anti-Russian rhetoric and policies.

5) Become standoffish in its dealings with the People's Republic of China.

6) Adopt hostile attitudes towards the Islamic Republic of Iran.

And most importantly --

7) Pass laws and adopt numerous policies in support of multiculturalism, social justice and unbridled, rhetorical Weltschmerz.

Only, then !

It would be interesting to speculate re: the above "easy prescriptions" as they might pertain to the Turkish State and the people it claims to represent under two alternate scenarios:

-- Kemalist Turkey
-- Neo-Ottoman Turkey

[lvjtn]

gentlemen, i hope nobody will launch the next (virtual) balkan war here

+1 personal comment. basically every nation has very bad experiences regarding their neighbors and also there are dark pages in the history of every nation. same for the religion. but bad relations can be improved easly. e.g. the serbian-hungarian relation was very hostile since the 18th century, when the austrian-turkish wars ended, and the serbs living in the krajinas (special border districts) alongside the hungarian-turkish border, lost their privileges, the mutual tramuas were suffered and given by both sides until we let the americans bombing serbia in 1999. but somehow our countries are almos bff, and when i go to bácska/voivodina, serbian people are very friendly. well, they often force me to drink their poisonous šljivovica and rakija, both are forbidden by geneva conventions, but we realize very soon how much things are common in our lives and perspective. i have very similar experiences with slovakians

otoh, former intra-national "friendships" can easly decline too, e.g. germany is less and less popular here, and i'm sure the average hans and greta in germany have also worse and worse opinion about us. these things aren't carved in stone. no matter what politicians try to make us believe. (e.g. "oceania had always been at war with eastasia.")

[HexCode]

gentlemen, i hope nobody will launch the next (virtual) balkan war here

I'm really puzzled by this statement. For the life of me, I can't find anything remotely objectionable, let alone combative, in the contents of posts dealing with Balkan / Levant affairs accommodated under this rather "permissive" topic.

Is it possible that a new "administrative" consensus has recently emerged which actively discourages any posting that doesn't deal with OG, other games, music or sports ? What's going on ? Either way, some definitive clarification is certainly in order now. I mean, if posting in the Pub is going to be restricted in some way, let there be a clear announcement to that effect.

[lvjtn]

I'm really puzzled by this statement. For the life of me, I can't find anything remotely objectionable, let alone combative, in the contents of posts dealing with Balkan / Levant affairs accommodated under this rather "permissive" topic.

Is it possible that a new "administrative" consensus has recently emerged which actively discourages any posting that doesn't deal with OG, other games, music or sports ? What's going on ? Either way, some definitive clarification is certainly in order now. I mean, if posting in the Pub is going to be restricted in some way, let there be a clear announcement to that effect.

you are right, the discussion is civilized so far, i'm just worried about the acceptable mocking can become real verbal fight eventually

as i really have no time to read all posts, i just asked everybody not crossing any red lines, as i absolutely don't like to moderate there is no new policy, and my post wasn't a "warning" or anything like that

it is absolutely "allowed" to discuss anything here, i just ask everybody not attacking anybody else personally. that's all

if someone feels my words were unnecessary, just ignore them. i'm absolutely happy if you say everything posted here about intra-national experiences are acceptable

[HexCode]

Despite the obvious fact that # Ale # and I have been, by far, the most prolific contributors under this topic in the past, I've been avoiding direct interaction with him because of one very important reason. Time and time again, # Ale # has stated that he dislikes "politics". Nevertheless, medieval politics seem to be ok with him. So be it.

These days, the Republics of Serbia and Turkey don't have many "friends" in Western Mainstream Media (WMM). What may have come across as "mocking" was my humor underlying very concrete, present truths. Namely, both at the state as well as people level, the "changes" required for WMM to "forgive & forget" would be plainly unacceptable to many in those two countries, dollars / euros be damned...

By the way, current geopolitical... realpolitik is mightily supported by "civilized values" talk. Hence...

[randowe]

No

[lvjtn]

again, Bülent, if there is no problem between you and Ale, then it's okay, maybe i was hasty and misinterpreted some words, i'm sorry

regarding the "purple mods": this is mostly like the honorary consul position: a sort of appreciation without too much duties. i think it's only Para in the campaign challenge forums who is active moderator recently

anyway, if you need anything, Luis and i can do all the moderator jobs on the entire forum, fortunately there is very few of them

[HexCode]

Bülent, if there is no problem between you and Ale, then it's okay, maybe i was hasty and misinterpreted some words, i'm sorry

All's good now !

regarding the "purple mods": this is mostly like the honorary consul position: a sort of appreciation without too much duties . . . if you need anything, Luis and i can do all the moderator jobs on the entire forum, fortunately there is very few of them

Excellent. In my opinion, the Moderator's "actual role" in these forums is way more desirable and constructive when contrasted to some past, unfortunate goings on in that "other" (now defunct) Web venue. I'm certainly in favor of practical, "administrative" improvements !

By the way, I'll be approaching Luis and yourself with an interesting proposal real soon.

[Ale]

wasn't really great subject in our relations with Turkey, so another post...

what surprises me, in casual talk, how many people don't understand that lowering of population is not just smaller number of people living in some place/country, it's also in our situation increasingly older population, less ideas, productivity, exchange, less sales and demand and all, no youth, schools etc. So if we fall at 5,5 millions by 2060 it is not like we will be smaller but like Denmark, we will be country of grey heads and less anything ;

so fur fun, doing calculations.... mmmm, hmmm, mmm... to keep this population level we'll need 1-1.5 million of Turks (and Azeris, esp. cute ones) by 2060... to keep sexual harmony that means at most up to 750-800,000 miladies... since almost 1/3 of Serbia population lives in capital, that means 250-300,000 Turk females in capital in second half of this century. Great, beautiful thought, lucky us.

yeah, I'm doing calculations but nobody asked Turks ; ... but they lived here before, why not. When you look at it this way, isn't our history a paradox with all those "agreements" to make them leave since XIX c although Miloš himself expressed desire that at least females stay Genetic, haplo research showed that, unlike previously believed, some thousands did stay however in urban or rural areas, probably converted to Serbs ; .... back to today - Turks themselves say that they are facing some possible population changes and going towards our trends, but UN projections till the start of 22. century put them at roughly same level of population, us almost halved (and significantly older).

Famous "Via militaris" connecting two biggest cities could be future "Via amoris" and "Stambol gate" reborn as symbol directing to where many wife's origins are from ) ... of course, like in poker it's Turkey's call - she can just say, go old and go half yourself, piggie ...that's where some feet kissing comes into play, recommended ;

considering male name for a son with Turkish wife, i'd propose Vuk-an our old name but having wolf in it and is similar to some name Turks have today.... I must finish once, but insisted so much because i find some lines (maybe not here in English) as some of most refreshing and comical i put, in that sense I added this post too, it is humoristic but with truth, nothing to make Turk readers unpleasant - since my last post wasn't really about "good things", this one is much better, correction to eventual younger Turk readers, this one with smile. (...of corse we are not western Europe for this to happen, so just laugh at us...and help...)) do join, need some closer for fun... ;

[Ale]

considering map and economic data I presented few months ago it seems there was sharp decline in trade with Italy in months before corona crisis and whole 2019, so we entered 2020 with rise in exports to Germany to compensate that "loss of Italian market". Other destinations with recorded gains in that period were China and South Korea, great pals.... so there was negative trade balance with Italy after all in times i typed that ...those numbers fluctuate and hope Italy market recovers... so it looks like we didn't have surplus with any of biggest trading partners before corona crisis, only Romania ; .... those all might be relative, imprecise and midget numbers on world stage, but dear to us proving that we do have economy after all... had to correct, we have no "mama" in the moment anymore, but 604% rise in exports to S. Korea was great move.... it changes yearly, of course so they will be back.

here are more positives about Turkey and Greece, we were before corona crisis by relevant data among top 10-12 countries visiting Greece yearly and 32. by visits to Turkey - with chance to by just more than doubling visits to Turkey to be even placed much higher among countries visiting them.... must be something positive said for a small and poor country and there are more than 200 in the world, so not bad ranking there not to sound like we are dead yet. (we are also trading with Turkey almost as much as China in both exports and imports...and we can import lovely population from both, what more can one country ask for in future relations and friendship)

[HexCode]

1) Email addresses invariably appear in lower case.

2) Internet communications reserve upper case usage for impolite, virtual... shouting.

3) The French language is extremely averse to upper case usage.

4) In the Canadian province of Ontario, many elderly, Canadian-born individuals found their provincially issued public health insurance cards officially sporting... exotic variations of their names due to the... brilliant idea on the part of the provincial government to ignore all other documents but birth certificates. Quite a few of those birth certificates had been filled out in illegible, lower case cursive by barely educated local functionaries...

Enough is enough, I say. When it comes to the Digital Age, upper case usage should both be rehabilitated and aimed for. Actually, there's a logical and quite telling, precursor here; namely, forms explicitly requiring that they be filled out in block letters so as to minimize confusion due to potential ambiguities.

SO:

When it comes to wargame development and modding, well, "things" are very clear to me. Whether one is a Player, Modder or Developer, the current monitor high resolutions twinned with relatively small screens are a curse when it comes to on-screen readability of text in lower case. To this effect, Modders and Developers are strongly encouraged to use upper case as much as possible (i.e., file names and all text content). Don't blindly emulate past "polite" practices (unless you're dealing with good ol' Unix); please...

[lvjtn]

the current monitor high resolutions twinned with relatively small screens are a curse when it comes to on-screen readability of text in lower case.

just use higher dpi for the fonts (e.g. 144 instead of 96)

actually, the idea of eliminating cases is excellent, that's only a post-antique junk

[HexCode]

Time for some free associations. Let's go back to the... movies, where else ?

From "Gladiator" (2000) directed by Ridley Scott ==>

Proximo (owner of the gladiatorial school) says to Maximus (former Roman general fallen from imperial grace and reduced to a mere gladiator):

PROXIMO: And then, when enough men have died, perhaps you will have your freedom.

Free Association #1: And then, when enough shooters have been downed, perhaps you will have your buzz.

Free Association #2: And then, when enough rich pastries have been wolved down, perhaps you will have your heart attack.

Free Association #3: And then, when enough girls have been sweet-talked, perhaps you will have your boring wife.

Free Association #4: And then, when enough elections have come and gone, perhaps you will stay at home and watch sports on TV.

Free Association #5: And then, when enough idealistic volunteers have died, perhaps you will focus on chasing skirt(s).

Ad infinitum...

[HexCode]

Rescuing yet another gem from virtual obscurity...

... invites... sociocultural commentary. Let's not forget that 1965 was still modernity territory (postmodernity having commenced in the early 1980s). In those days, wargamers tended to socialize in person and their attention span was significantly longer... It was only when exhaustion would set in that the... beer & pretzels would come out... Sometimes, the male host's sister (yeah, the one with the great looking legs) would choose to warmly socialize with the... tired (only in a very limited / provisional sense) warriors...

Gee, this guy must be 100 years old ! How can "boring" hormones compete with flashy consumer gadgets and the "magical" internet these days ? Anecdotally, Australian urban females appear to prefer going shopping ("empowered" by a mighty collection of credit cards, of course) than eating, well,... chocolate. As for hormones, young Clint Eastwood went through their towns many, many years ago; when their grandmothers were... supermodels, that is. Such "strange" phenomena tend to happen only once in history...

P.S. Just in case the name of one of those... superannuated supermodels was Mary:

[OMK] Merriments
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=229&start=150#p6983

[HexCode]

From the film "Tora, Tora, Tora" (1970) ==>

Captain Minoru Genda: The young pilots are eager for battle.

Vice-Admiral Chūichi Nagumo: They don’t yet know the taste of battle.

A long-standing... prescription aimed at curing such youthful urges and tendencies is, well, none other than sexual exhaustion ! Funny how tribes tend to get their anthropological priorities all mixed up when pursuing grandiose dreams...

The following "gem" may be worth repeating:

Tribal... erections often result in extreme discomfort during urination.

In my opinion, the preceding "gem" has absolutely nothing to do with sexual exhaustion; rather, it's about youthful satisfaction derived from beating up on other "people" -- for a good cause, of course; always ! So, where's the "discomfort" ? The inevitable blow-back.

[HexCode]

From Father Time's Jurassic archives...

I stopped at pg2 (not liking the candies added in successive versions). Even changing the icons is useless or even counterproductive.

Icons, eh ?

Rescuing another gem ==>

Now, picture this. As you know, I am not entirely, technically clueless... SO, what if I were to substitute all those icons depicting units with... poses of my grandmother, the eternal... supermodel, that is !! As long as I keep things private, all this is... lunar territory. BUT, once I start posting about such things or, worse (?), render my masterpieces readily downloadable, well, things change dramatically; "public" hobby manifestations here "we" come...

Actually, my grandmother was... lethal. Her home made baklava was to... die for ! What's the matter ? Don't you like home made baklava ? You should have seen my grandmother wolfing down all those delicious pieces. By the way, when it comes to icon substitution, I would suggest that the Tiger II icon be replaced by an icon depicting my grandmother in attack posture brandishing a very long and powerful broom stick...

[HexCode]

What's the matter ? Don't you like home made baklava ?

when one's hungry...

There's the proto-expressionist "The Scream" by Edvard Munch, of course. How about "The Hunger" though ? Well, there's "The Shipwreck of Don Juan" by Delacroix...

HOWEVER:

Didn't Marie Antoinette exclaim "Let them eat baklava" ? Am I looking at the title of a Ph.D. thesis in history here ?

There's also literature potential in this. How about "The Baklava Chronicles" ?

[Ale]

yes, yes... although i did not have Turkish "baba" all "babas" here look like they are Turkish "babas" (meaning grannies) esp. if "Sulejman" is on TV ... and baklava is usual part of cusine, made by "mamas" now - probably some simplified version... Life and feudal tables must've been sad before Turks here, without "kebabs" and baklava... on the other hand there was no feudal tables among us after Turks arrived ...in short our history, folks lost their own nobles and gained baklava in XV c (and other minor details, often forgoten....)

"Baklava chronicles" sounds like solid RPG title, worth working on ....... but in my case only if it'd include some black knight as character ... a bit of anti hero in story


(.... finally, though i had no recorded Turkish baba, my proposition to have grandchilds having a Turkish baba is still alive and open..... but time works against us and i'm cooling down, my dear... i think i elaborated and finished that subject))