forward, csaba! - lvjtn playtests forward, comrade! @25 - suspended

[lvjtn]

OpenGen 0.93.3.99.RC5 * 2 Mar 2020 * AI version: Default (0.91)
Efile folder: C:\opg\efile_atomic\ * Efile version: ATOMIC EFILE Version: 29th February 2020
Campaign: 1939-45 FORWARD, COMRADE!, * Player prestige modifier 25% * AI prestige modifier 100%

Played Scenarios:
1 Battle at the Chalchin Gol , #0 , Brilliant Victory , score:64
2 Battle of Suomussalmi , #1 , Brilliant Victory , score:65 +++ Proto: BA-11 (sold)
3 Pocket of Minsk , #2 , Brilliant Victory , score:65
4 Defense of Kishinev , #3 , Brilliant Victory , score:65 +++ Proto: 76mm M1942 (ZiS-3)
--
Campaign score: 259 * Average: 64


1. khalkhin gol - ltbv (no proto)

restarted once when realized the northern zone has zero importance, but the heavy japanese ad can fire at soft targets. i bought 3 fast tanks, three auto-dismount mortars, a strong(er) recon car and had some cash for two regular inf withh cycle gtp. i focused the strongest units in the midle of the map (t-28 arrived there too from the north), left behind two damaged units to protect my initial vh+airfiled, but japs didn't attack it from the north (maybe they should, because these northern japanese units did exactly nothing, i would give them an object hex and/or i'd make them aggressive). once i broke through the initial japanese defense line, the map was pretty empty, and i won easily with my bt-7

got no proto, so i sold an attachment and bought a second fighter

cap is fine for the 1st scenario, but imo a bit high for the second one (can be reduced to 9000pp). imo the cap should be always hit at 100 (= players can waste some cash on repairing the damaged units before the end of the scenario)

i post my core before the hq session, unless you want otherwise

..
Current scenario: Battle at the Chalchin Gol, VH prestige is 12 , All map prestige is: 15
Army cost: 2292 , Current prestige is 25
Prestige available on map yet is 2 pp ( 0 pp in VH to capture) * Turn: 9
AI stance is Defensive Using map: 739
if BV: +400, Battle of Suomussalmi , cap 2800, 9 turns prestige: 0
if V : +300, Battle of Suomussalmi , cap 2800, 10 turns prestige: 0
if TV: +200, Battle of Suomussalmi , cap 2800, 11 turns prestige: 0
Ls: Loss , turn prestige: 0

Infantry
* Cavalry 38 , , 0 bars , 29 exp , 3/10 , Fast Speed, 0 kill , 0 pp [+29 exp]
Strelkovy 38 , Velosiped , , 0 bars , 36 exp , 10/10 , 0 kill , 108 pp [+36 exp]
Strelkovy 38 , Velosiped , , 0 bars , 60 exp , 9/10 , 0 kill , 108 pp [+60 exp]

Tank
* T-28 , , 0 bars , 21 exp , 8/10 , 3 kill , 0 pp [+21 exp]
BT-7M , , 0 bars , 82 exp , 6/10 , 5 kill , 336 pp [+82 exp]
BT-7M , , 0 bars , 68 exp , 6/10 , 4 kill , 336 pp [+68 exp]

Recon
* BA-10 , , 0 bars , 46 exp , 3/10 , 1 kill , 0 pp [+46 exp]
BA-27M , , 0 bars , 42 exp , 7/10 , 0 kill , 252 pp [+42 exp]

Anti-Tank
* YaG-10 , , 0 bars , 18 exp , 6/10 , 0 kill , 0 pp [+18 exp]

Artillery
* 152mm M1937 (ML-20) , KhPZ Voroshilovets , , 0 bars , 37 exp , 10/10 , 1 kill , 0 pp [+37 exp]
120mm M1938 Mortar , ZIS-6 , , 0 bars , 26 exp , 5/10 , 1 kill , 384 pp [+26 exp]
120mm M1938 Mortar , ZIS-6 , , 0 bars , 54 exp , 10/10 , 1 kill , 384 pp [+54 exp]
120mm M1938 Mortar , ZIS-6 , , 0 bars , 15 exp , 10/10 , 0 kill , 384 pp [+15 exp]

Fighter
* I-16-28 , , 0 bars , 72 exp , 7/10 , Air Defense, AntiTank, 3 kill , 0 pp [+72 exp]

Player 1 : USSR, Mongolia
Killed: INF:8 TNK:3 RCN:1 AT:1 ATY:2 AD:2 FTR:1 TB:1 Total: 19
Lost : Total: 0

BV 1
V 0
TV 0
L 0

Averages:
Infantry * 3 Units * 0 Leaders Total : 125 exp, 0 kill, 216 pp Average: 42 exp, 0 kill, 72 pp
Tank * 3 Units * 0 Leaders Total : 171 exp, 12 kill, 672 pp Average: 57 exp, 4 kill, 224 pp
Recon * 2 Units * 0 Leaders Total : 88 exp, 1 kill, 252 pp Average: 44 exp, 1 kill, 126 pp
Anti-Tank * 1 Units * 0 Leaders Total : 18 exp, 0 kill, 0 pp Average: 18 exp, 0 kill, 0 pp
Artillery * 4 Units * 0 Leaders Total : 132 exp, 3 kill, 1152 pp Average: 33 exp, 1 kill, 288 pp
Fighter * 1 Units * 0 Leaders Total : 72 exp, 3 kill, 0 pp Average: 72 exp, 3 kill, 0 pp
* Summary: * 14 Units * 0 Leaders Total : 606 exp, 19 kill, 2292 pp Average: 43 exp, 1 kill, 164 pp

[randowe]

got no proto

All the years i had the impression that a player will always get a proto after the first scenario of a campaign when
- BV
- protos are available

I thought this is kind of mandatory. But know i see it isn't

[lvjtn]

All the years i had the impression that a player will always get a proto after the first scenario of a campaign when
- BV
- protos are available

yes, it should work as you wrote, so it may be a bug in rc5. unfortunately, i can't replicate it, as i loaded the auto-save file, i always got a proto. nevermind, playing at 25% should be harsh, and i should accept the cheap proto what i got after the second scenario. imo a good playtest is when the tester accepts the bad leaders, unlucky combat results, crappy protos, etc.

2. suomussalmi - ltbv +1 recon car proto (sold)

very easy scenario. my four guns + aux ad gun decimated the finnish defense, my planes (+ a new temporal recon tb purchased during the scenario) spotted the map, bombed the entrenched units/guns when it was possible, my armor softened the finnish defense and finally my inf took the cities

now i'm in a trouble. the cash i have is significantly lower than at 100% and i should be prepared for the experienced wehrmacht units as a first attempt, i decided to upgrade whatever i could (cavalry / inf to '40 variants, tanks to t-34/41, fighters to lagg-3), and purchased 2-2 76mm arty and ad guns


Current scenario: Battle of Suomussalmi, VH prestige is 37 , All map prestige is: 45
Army cost: 3228 , Current prestige is 598
Prestige available on map yet is 7 pp ( 0 pp in VH to capture) * Turn: 13
AI stance is Defensive Using map: 1
if BV: +3600, Pocket of Minsk , cap 10000, 13 turns prestige: 910
if V : +1800, Pocket of Minsk , cap 10000, 15 turns prestige: 1050
if TV: +900, Pocket of Minsk , cap 10000, 17 turns prestige: 1190
Ls: Loss , turn prestige: 1190

Infantry
* Cavalry 38 , , 0 bars , 48 exp , 3/10 , Fast Speed, 2 kill , 0 pp [+19 exp]
Strelkovy 38 , Velosiped , , 1 bars , 108 exp , 4/10 , 0 kill , 108 pp [+72 exp]
Strelkovy 38 , Velosiped , , 1 bars , 101 exp , 8/10 , 3 kill , 108 pp [+41 exp]

Tank
* T-28 , , 0 bars , 61 exp , 7/10 , 5 kill , 0 pp [+40 exp]
BT-7M , , 1 bars , 174 exp , 5/10 , 11 kill , 336 pp [+92 exp]
BT-7M , , 1 bars , 160 exp , 8/10 , 7 kill , 336 pp [+92 exp]

Recon
* BA-10 , , 1 bars , 113 exp , 6/10 , 1 kill , 0 pp [+67 exp]
BA-27M , , 0 bars , 94 exp , 8/10 , 1 kill , 252 pp [+52 exp]

Anti-Tank
* YaG-10 , , 0 bars , 48 exp , 9/10 , 1 kill , 0 pp [+30 exp]

Artillery
* 152mm M1937 (ML-20) , KhPZ Voroshilovets , , 0 bars , 92 exp , 10/10 , 1 kill , 0 pp [+55 exp]
120mm M1938 Mortar , ZIS-6 , , 1 bars , 105 exp , 10/10 , 1 kill , 384 pp [+79 exp]
120mm M1938 Mortar , ZIS-6 , , 1 bars , 110 exp , 10/10 , 1 kill , 384 pp [+56 exp]
120mm M1938 Mortar , ZIS-6 , , 0 bars , 73 exp , 10/10 , 0 kill , 384 pp [+58 exp]

Fighter
* I-16-28 , , 0 bars , 88 exp , 9/10 , 3 kill , 0 pp [+16 exp]
I-16-28 , , 0 bars , 17 exp , 9/10 , Air Defense, 1 kill , 540 pp [+17 exp]

Dive Bomber
R-5 , , 0 bars , 30 exp , 10/10 , 0 kill , 396 pp [+30 exp]

Player 1 : USSR
Killed: INF:18 TNK:4 RCN:3 AT:3 FORT:1 ATY:4 AD:3 FTR:2 TB:1 Total: 39
Lost : Total: 0

BV 2
V 0
TV 0
L 0

Averages:
Infantry * 3 Units * 0 Leaders Total : 257 exp, 5 kill, 216 pp Average: 86 exp, 2 kill, 72 pp
Tank * 3 Units * 0 Leaders Total : 395 exp, 23 kill, 672 pp Average: 132 exp, 8 kill, 224 pp
Recon * 2 Units * 0 Leaders Total : 207 exp, 2 kill, 252 pp Average: 104 exp, 1 kill, 126 pp
Anti-Tank * 1 Units * 0 Leaders Total : 48 exp, 1 kill, 0 pp Average: 48 exp, 1 kill, 0 pp
Artillery * 4 Units * 0 Leaders Total : 380 exp, 3 kill, 1152 pp Average: 95 exp, 1 kill, 288 pp
Fighter * 2 Units * 0 Leaders Total : 105 exp, 4 kill, 540 pp Average: 53 exp, 2 kill, 270 pp
Dive Bomber * 1 Units * 0 Leaders Total : 30 exp, 0 kill, 396 pp Average: 30 exp, 0 kill, 396 pp
* Summary: * 16 Units * 0 Leaders Total : 1422 exp, 38 kill, 3228 pp Average: 89 exp, 2 kill, 202 pp

[Major Heinz]

You need especially good tanks to stop the german tanks (luckily the most tanks are Pz II).
BV @25 can be very hard. But you should get at least a tactical victory. Holdind Borisow should not be a great problem, espacially if you deploy your units around the city. Maybe I will play Minsk later on evening. But now I am watching Bog Brother

[Parabellum]

Hello Csaba, we tested the campaign in summer '19 and had a detailed, partly controversial discussion. If at any time you have 15 minutes, i would like to recommend that you read our discussion. You can also find a lot of details about the campaign in my AAR and maybe get some ideas for investments or upgrades.
http://306611.homepagemodules.de/t84866 ... -Para.html
With Google chrome, the text can be translated quickly in the browser, but you know that for sure.

[lvjtn]

3. minsk - ltbv (held all vhs) +1 leader

unlike what i expected, it was an easy scenario, due to the fact opengen ai doesn't move the towed guns, so germans tried to storm minsk w/o arty, so they were easy preys of my guns. most attacks were halted by my support fire. the key of the bv here is overlapping air defense (luftwaffe was eliminated in gt-4), overlapping arty guns inside minsk, inf on the edges of the city. my tanks first operated in the south-west, after killing or damaging enough scary german armors (like the crazy stug iii e) they turned to the north-eastern side of the city and defended the airfield succesfully

imo the design of this scenario is broken: half of the german units don't reach the front lines at all. e.g. i left the north-eastern vh empty, and nobody ever took it imo all vhs should be needed by both sides, object hexes should be used for german guns. otoh, all towed soviet units should have gtp, as they are pretty useless if you deploy them in a wrong place. there are also lots of units on both sides which should be available only in 1942

after minks the base exp reduced to zero (btw. kishinev after minsk is a bit time travelling scenario), but i couldn't buy anything during minsk, so i accept that my two new shiny t-34 will arrive with zero exp

Current scenario: Pocket of Minsk, VH prestige is 0 , All map prestige is: 0
Army cost: 5412 , Current prestige is 76
Prestige available on map yet is 0 pp ( 0 pp in VH to capture) * Turn: 8
AI stance is Aggressive Using map: 504
if BV: +1300, Defense of Kishinev , cap 11300, 7 turns prestige: 0
if V : +1000, Defense of Kishinev , cap 11300, 7 turns prestige: 0
if TV: +500, Defense of Kishinev , cap 11300, 7 turns prestige: 0
if Ls: +0, Defense of Kishinev , cap 11300, 7 turns prestige: 0

Infantry
* Kavaleriya 40 , , 0 bars , 71 exp , 7/10 , 2 kill , 0 pp [+28 exp]
Strelkovy 40 , Velosiped , , 1 bars , 118 exp , 10/10 , 0 kill , 120 pp [+21 exp]
Strelkovy 40 , Velosiped , , 1 bars , 132 exp , 10/10 , 4 kill , 120 pp [+42 exp]

Tank
* T-34/41 , , 1 bars , 146 exp , 9/10 , 6 kill , 0 pp [+92 exp]
T-34/41 , cpt. Luis - defense , 2 bars , 228 exp , 7/10 , Determined Defense , 11 kill , 600 pp [+72 exp]
T-34/41 , , 2 bars , 223 exp , 8/10 , 12 kill , 600 pp [+79 exp]

Recon
* BA-10 , , 1 bars , 145 exp , 6/10 , 2 kill , 0 pp [+32 exp]
BA-27M , , 1 bars , 121 exp , 4/10 , 1 kill , 252 pp [+27 exp]

Anti-Tank
* YaG-10 , , 1 bars , 175 exp , 10/10 , 2 kill , 0 pp [+127 exp]

Artillery
* 152mm M1937 (ML-20) , KhPZ Voroshilovets , , 1 bars , 173 exp , 10/10 , 1 kill , 0 pp [+81 exp]
120mm M1938 Mortar , ZIS-6 , , 1 bars , 163 exp , 10/10 , 2 kill , 384 pp [+58 exp]
120mm M1938 Mortar , ZIS-6 , , 1 bars , 175 exp , 10/10 , 1 kill , 384 pp [+65 exp]
120mm M1938 Mortar , ZIS-6 , , 1 bars , 146 exp , 10/10 , 1 kill , 384 pp [+73 exp]
76mm M1939 (USV) , ZIS-6 , , 1 bars , 170 exp , 10/10 , 0 kill , 264 pp [+145 exp]
76mm M1939 (USV) , ZIS-6 , , 1 bars , 100 exp , 10/10 , 0 kill , 264 pp [+75 exp]

Air-Defence
76mm M1938 , Yag-4 , , 0 bars , 65 exp , 10/10 , 0 kill , 372 pp [+40 exp]
76mm M1938 , Yag-4 , , 0 bars , 85 exp , 10/10 , 1 kill , 372 pp [+60 exp]

Fighter
* LaGG-3 Aces , , 1 bars , 115 exp , 8/10 , Air Defense, 5 kill , 0 pp [+36 exp]
LaGG-3 Aces , , 0 bars , 76 exp , 10/10 , Air Defense, 4 kill , 1296 pp [+51 exp]

Player 1 : USSR
Killed: INF:22 TNK:17 RCN:4 AT:4 FLAK:1 FORT:1 ATY:7 AD:3 FTR:5 TB:5 LB:1 Total: 70
Lost : INF:3 TNK:4 AT:1 AD:1 Total: 9

BV 3
V 0
TV 0
L 0

Averages:
Infantry * 3 Units * 0 Leaders Total : 321 exp, 6 kill, 240 pp Average: 107 exp, 2 kill, 80 pp
Tank * 3 Units * 1 Leaders Total : 597 exp, 29 kill, 1200 pp Average: 199 exp, 10 kill, 400 pp
Recon * 2 Units * 0 Leaders Total : 266 exp, 3 kill, 252 pp Average: 133 exp, 2 kill, 126 pp
Anti-Tank * 1 Units * 0 Leaders Total : 175 exp, 2 kill, 0 pp Average: 175 exp, 2 kill, 0 pp
Artillery * 6 Units * 0 Leaders Total : 927 exp, 5 kill, 1680 pp Average: 155 exp, 1 kill, 280 pp
Air-Defence * 2 Units * 0 Leaders Total : 150 exp, 1 kill, 744 pp Average: 75 exp, 1 kill, 372 pp
Fighter * 2 Units * 0 Leaders Total : 191 exp, 9 kill, 1296 pp Average: 96 exp, 5 kill, 648 pp
* Summary: * 19 Units * 1 Leaders Total : 2627 exp, 55 kill, 5412 pp Average: 138 exp, 3 kill, 285 pp

[Major Heinz]

Interesting that no unit attacked the northeastern VH, because on my run four units arrived Borisov. Obviously the AI decided to do other things at your run. B
It is not really historical that all soviet units have gtp, but I will make all city hexes in Minsk into a deployment hex, so the player can deploy more units in the town.
Yes, you will not have in all scenarios units with exp. In Kishinev the half of the opponents are unexperienced romanian units. So you can easily gain exp even with unexperienced units.

[lvjtn]

It is not really historical that all soviet units have gtp (...)

that's true, and inf w/o gtp is correct and realistic. i'm speaking about the guns (at, ad, arty classes). they are towed guns, which word literally means something carried them. in 1941, mostly horses

regarding ai movement in minsk: only the airfield is set to be a "must conquered/hold" by axis side, so it's logical that all ai units try to move toward it

4. kishinev - ltbv (held three vhs) +1 arty proto +2 leaders

another easy mission, even at 25%. i deployed 1-1 inexperienced tank, mortar, 76mm arty, 76mm ad, recon in the southern zone, the rest to the north-east, except one cavalry which sat on the central airfield+vh. my north-eastern bg (consisting of 5 tanks) simply overran the germans within 4 turns, then 1 tank and inf left behind to take the flag hexes and to kill the remnants, the rest of my core turned to south-.west, formed a defense line around the central airfield, and repulsed all axis attacks, just like my southern bg

i just found another unrealistic monster unit, the siberian inf with gd=16 i immediatelly bought 3 of them for odessa and a second flak class mg inf (which also has the insane mechanized special )


Current scenario: Defense of Kishinev, VH prestige is 0 , All map prestige is: 120
Army cost: 6780 , Current prestige is 390
Prestige available on map yet is 90 pp ( 0 pp in VH to capture) * Turn: 12
AI stance is Aggressive Using map: 20
if BV: +500, Battle of Odessa , cap 13700, 11 turns prestige: 357
if V : +250, Battle of Odessa , cap 13700, 11 turns prestige: 357
if TV: +100, Battle of Odessa , cap 13700, 11 turns prestige: 357
if Ls: +0, Battle of Odessa , cap 13700, 11 turns prestige: 357

Infantry
* Kavaleriya 40 , , 0 bars , 98 exp , 10/10 , 4 kill , 0 pp [+27 exp]
Strelkovy 40 , Velosiped , , 1 bars , 136 exp , 1/10 , 0 kill , 120 pp [+18 exp]
Strelkovy 40 , Velosiped , , 1 bars , 193 exp , 5/10 , 5 kill , 120 pp [+61 exp]

Tank
* T-34/41 , , 2 bars , 202 exp , 5/10 , 8 kill , 0 pp [+56 exp]
T-34/41 , cpt. Luis - defense , 2 bars , 284 exp , 7/10 , Determined Defense , 15 kill , 600 pp [+56 exp]
T-34/41 , , 3 bars , 320 exp , 7/10 , 16 kill , 600 pp [+97 exp]
T-34/41 , , 0 bars , 89 exp , 9/10 , 3 kill , 600 pp [+89 exp]
T-34/41 , , 1 bars , 122 exp , 5/10 , 5 kill , 600 pp [+122 exp]

Recon
* BA-10 , , 1 bars , 193 exp , 5/10 , 3 kill , 0 pp [+48 exp]
BA-27M , , 1 bars , 183 exp , 3/10 , 2 kill , 252 pp [+62 exp]

Anti-Tank
* YaG-10 , , 2 bars , 280 exp , 9/10 , 2 kill , 0 pp [+105 exp]

Flak
MG 40 , Horse , , 0 bars , 33 exp , 3/10 , 0 kill , 168 pp [+33 exp]

Artillery
* 152mm M1937 (ML-20) , KhPZ Voroshilovets , , 2 bars , 244 exp , 10/10 , 2 kill , 0 pp [+71 exp]
120mm M1938 Mortar , ZIS-6 , , 2 bars , 234 exp , 10/10 , 2 kill , 384 pp [+71 exp]
120mm M1938 Mortar , ZIS-6 , , 1 bars , 195 exp , 10/10 , 1 kill , 384 pp [+20 exp]
120mm M1938 Mortar , ZIS-6 , , 2 bars , 208 exp , 9/10 , 2 kill , 384 pp [+62 exp]
76mm M1939 (USV) , ZIS-6 , , 2 bars , 259 exp , 10/10 , 0 kill , 264 pp [+89 exp]
76mm M1939 (USV) , ZIS-6 , , 1 bars , 139 exp , 10/10 , 0 kill , 264 pp [+39 exp]

Air-Defence
76mm M1938 , Yag-4 , , 1 bars , 108 exp , 8/10 , 2 kill , 372 pp [+43 exp]
76mm M1938 , Yag-4 , cpt. Clemens - kill , 2 bars , 221 exp , 10/10 , Overwhelming Attack , 1 kill , 372 pp [+136 exp]

Fighter
* LaGG-3 Aces , , 1 bars , 172 exp , 4/10 , Air Defense, 8 kill , 0 pp [+57 exp]
LaGG-3 Aces , cpt. Patrick - shock , 1 bars , 165 exp , 7/10 , Shock Tactics , Air Defense, 6 kill , 1296 pp [+89 exp]

Player 1 : USSR
Killed: INF:29 TNK:23 RCN:9 AT:8 FLAK:1 FORT:1 ATY:9 AD:4 FTR:7 TB:9 LB:2 Total: 102
Lost : INF:3 TNK:4 AT:1 AD:1 Total: 9

BV 4
V 0
TV 0
L 0

Averages:
Infantry * 3 Units * 0 Leaders Total : 427 exp, 9 kill, 240 pp Average: 142 exp, 3 kill, 80 pp
Tank * 5 Units * 1 Leaders Total : 1017 exp, 47 kill, 2400 pp Average: 203 exp, 9 kill, 480 pp
Recon * 2 Units * 0 Leaders Total : 376 exp, 5 kill, 252 pp Average: 188 exp, 3 kill, 126 pp
Anti-Tank * 1 Units * 0 Leaders Total : 280 exp, 2 kill, 0 pp Average: 280 exp, 2 kill, 0 pp
Flak * 1 Units * 0 Leaders Total : 33 exp, 0 kill, 168 pp Average: 33 exp, 0 kill, 168 pp
Artillery * 6 Units * 0 Leaders Total : 1279 exp, 7 kill, 1680 pp Average: 213 exp, 1 kill, 280 pp
Air-Defence * 2 Units * 1 Leaders Total : 329 exp, 3 kill, 744 pp Average: 165 exp, 2 kill, 372 pp
Fighter * 2 Units * 1 Leaders Total : 337 exp, 14 kill, 1296 pp Average: 169 exp, 7 kill, 648 pp
* Summary: * 22 Units * 3 Leaders Total : 4078 exp, 87 kill, 6780 pp Average: 185 exp, 4 kill, 308 pp

[Major Heinz]

regarding ai movement in minsk: only the airfield is set to be a "must conquered/hold" by axis side, so it's logical that all ai units try to move toward it

This is a good hint, as this was not my intention

[randowe]

i just found another unrealistic monster unit, the siberian inf with gd=16 i immediatelly bought 3 of them for odessa and a second flak class mg inf (which also has the insane mechanized special )

Welcome to the world of BK units. There are plenty of magnificent units. Try it out!

[lvjtn]

5. odessa - ltbv +2 leaders

another easy scenario. the new siberians did their job perfectly and lead the attack against the cities. there were a little bit more germans at the end of the scenario than i expected, but the bv was safe all the time.

i focused my strongest and most experienced units in the middle of the map and simply crushed the axis resistance by force, while weaker units on the pincers advanced a bit slower but also succesfully

it was tempting to buy the new t-34/57 with impressive ha stat, but i decided to purchase a 3rd recon instead (i usually use three bgs, i needed a 3rd a lot), upgraded the weakest recon car and gave horse gtp for the siberians


Current scenario: Battle of Odessa, VH prestige is 45 , All map prestige is: 180
Army cost: 7596 , Current prestige is 238
Prestige available on map yet is 7 pp ( 0 pp in VH to capture) * Turn: 12
AI stance is Defensive Using map: 800
if BV: +500, Pocket of Kiew , cap 14900, 12 turns prestige: 0
if V : +300, Pocket of Kiew , cap 14900, 14 turns prestige: 0
if TV: +100, Pocket of Kiew , cap 14900, 16 turns prestige: 0
Ls: Loss , turn prestige: 0

Infantry
* Kavaleriya 40 , , 1 bars , 145 exp , 4/10 , 4 kill , 0 pp [+47 exp]
Strelkovy 40 , Velosiped , , 1 bars , 176 exp , 7/10 , 0 kill , 120 pp [+40 exp]
Strelkovy 40 , Velosiped , , 3 bars , 300 exp , 2/10 , 7 kill , 120 pp [+107 exp]
Sibirskaya Pekhota 41 , , 1 bars , 120 exp , 4/10 , 2 kill , 216 pp [+120 exp]
Sibirskaya Pekhota 41 , , 0 bars , 77 exp , 2/10 , 1 kill , 216 pp [+77 exp]
Sibirskaya Pekhota 41 , , 0 bars , 40 exp , 10/10 , 0 kill , 216 pp [+40 exp]

Tank
* T-34/41 , , 3 bars , 323 exp , 4/10 , 12 kill , 0 pp [+121 exp]
T-34/41 , cpt. Luis - defense , 3 bars , 388 exp , 7/10 , Determined Defense , 24 kill , 600 pp [+104 exp]
T-34/41 , cpt. Juankar - hq , 4 bars , 404 exp , 6/10 , Combat Support , 21 kill , 600 pp [+84 exp]
T-34/41 , , 2 bars , 209 exp , 7/10 , 8 kill , 600 pp [+120 exp]
T-34/41 , , 2 bars , 220 exp , 6/10 , 10 kill , 600 pp [+98 exp]

Recon
* BA-10 , cpt. Para - resil , 2 bars , 238 exp , 3/10 , Resilience , 3 kill , 0 pp [+45 exp]
BA-27M , , 2 bars , 209 exp , 2/10 , 2 kill , 252 pp [+26 exp]

Anti-Tank
* YaG-10 , , 3 bars , 390 exp , 8/10 , 4 kill , 0 pp [+110 exp]

Flak
MG 40 , Horse , , 1 bars , 148 exp , 8/10 , 1 kill , 168 pp [+115 exp]
MG 40 , Horse , , 0 bars , 57 exp , 7/10 , 0 kill , 168 pp [+57 exp]

Artillery
* 152mm M1937 (ML-20) , KhPZ Voroshilovets , , 2 bars , 272 exp , 10/10 , 5 kill , 0 pp [+28 exp]
120mm M1938 Mortar , ZIS-6 , , 3 bars , 304 exp , 10/10 , 2 kill , 384 pp [+70 exp]
120mm M1938 Mortar , ZIS-6 , , 2 bars , 228 exp , 7/10 , 2 kill , 384 pp [+33 exp]
120mm M1938 Mortar , ZIS-6 , , 2 bars , 260 exp , 10/10 , 3 kill , 384 pp [+52 exp]
76mm M1939 (USV) , ZIS-6 , , 3 bars , 332 exp , 9/10 , 0 kill , 264 pp [+73 exp]
76mm M1939 (USV) , ZIS-6 , , 1 bars , 182 exp , 10/10 , 0 kill , 264 pp [+43 exp]
+ 76mm M1942 (ZiS-3) , Gaz-AAA , , 0 bars , 42 exp , 9/10 , 0 kill , 0 pp [+42 exp]

Air-Defence
76mm M1938 , Yag-4 , , 1 bars , 108 exp , 10/10 , 2 kill , 372 pp
76mm M1938 , Yag-4 , cpt. Clemens - kill , 2 bars , 247 exp , 3/10 , Overwhelming Attack , 1 kill , 372 pp [+26 exp]

Fighter
* LaGG-3 Aces , , 2 bars , 284 exp , 9/10 , Air Defense, 11 kill , 0 pp [+112 exp]
LaGG-3 Aces , cpt. Patrick - shock , 1 bars , 199 exp , 10/10 , Shock Tactics , Air Defense, 9 kill , 1296 pp [+34 exp]

Player 1 : USSR
Killed: INF:48 TNK:29 RCN:12 AT:12 FLAK:4 FORT:1 ATY:14 AD:7 FTR:8 TB:12 LB:2 Total: 149
Lost : INF:3 TNK:4 AT:1 AD:1 Total: 9

BV 5
V 0
TV 0
L 0

Averages:
Infantry * 6 Units * 0 Leaders Total : 858 exp, 14 kill, 888 pp Average: 143 exp, 2 kill, 148 pp
Tank * 5 Units * 2 Leaders Total : 1544 exp, 75 kill, 2400 pp Average: 309 exp, 15 kill, 480 pp
Recon * 2 Units * 1 Leaders Total : 447 exp, 5 kill, 252 pp Average: 224 exp, 3 kill, 126 pp
Anti-Tank * 1 Units * 0 Leaders Total : 390 exp, 4 kill, 0 pp Average: 390 exp, 4 kill, 0 pp
Flak * 2 Units * 0 Leaders Total : 205 exp, 1 kill, 336 pp Average: 103 exp, 1 kill, 168 pp
Artillery * 7 Units * 0 Leaders Total : 1620 exp, 12 kill, 1680 pp Average: 231 exp, 2 kill, 240 pp
Air-Defence * 2 Units * 1 Leaders Total : 355 exp, 3 kill, 744 pp Average: 178 exp, 2 kill, 372 pp
Fighter * 2 Units * 1 Leaders Total : 483 exp, 20 kill, 1296 pp Average: 242 exp, 10 kill, 648 pp
* Summary: * 27 Units * 5 Leaders Total : 5902 exp, 134 kill, 7596 pp Average: 219 exp, 5 kill, 281 pp

[Parabellum]

...
it was tempting to buy the new t-34/57 with impressive ha stat, ...

Buy this tank! They are only available for a short time. Later they will be angry about the missed opportunity.

[lvjtn]

Buy this tank! They are only available for a short time.

thanks the hint! so did i

6. kiev - ltbv (held 6 vhs) +2 leaders

this scenario is also a failed conversion. i got a very easy, though extremly cheeky bv here by exploiting the basekorp movement table: all i had to do was deploying aux inf near the bridges, blowing all of them in gt-1, then ai couldn't cross the rivers at all with their armored and motorized units, so only 3-4 inf tried to cross the rivers, whom i killed immediately. basically the "battle" was about finding the german guns, killing them by my long range guns, and creating air traps and hunting the luftwaffe. i managed both around gt-6. in gt-7 i used my lonely aux bridging inf to cross the central river, and retook both lost vhs in gt-8. the eastern german troops were bogged down in the mud in the south, and couldn't repel my attack. however, 1 or 2 turns, and they would have infiltrated through the southern marshes, and defense of kiev would have been doomed



so if you want to make this scenario as hard as it might be in pg2, give more bridging inf (5-6, at least, maybe 8) to ai, or this scenario will be a walk in the park for the soviet side

now the base exp is 100, so i sold and repurchased some units, purchased a 3rd fighter, a range-6 arty, another t-34/57 and upgraded the weaker recon


Current scenario: Pocket of Kiew, VH prestige is 0 , All map prestige is: 90
Army cost: 8304 , Current prestige is 84
Prestige available on map yet is 90 pp ( 0 pp in VH to capture) * Turn: 9
AI stance is Aggressive Using map: 229
if BV: +2500, Pocket of Brjansk , cap 16100, 8 turns prestige: 50
if V : +1300, Pocket of Brjansk , cap 16100, 8 turns prestige: 50
if TV: +700, Pocket of Brjansk , cap 16100, 8 turns prestige: 50
if Ls: +0, Pocket of Brjansk , cap 16100, 8 turns prestige: 50

Infantry
* Kavaleriya 40 , , 1 bars , 145 exp , 10/10 , 4 kill , 0 pp
Strelkovy 40 , Velosiped , , 1 bars , 178 exp , 9/10 , 0 kill , 120 pp [+2 exp]
Strelkovy 40 , Velosiped , , 3 bars , 300 exp , 10/10 , 7 kill , 120 pp
Sibirskaya Pekhota 41 , Horse , , 1 bars , 108 exp , 10/10 , 2 kill , 228 pp
Sibirskaya Pekhota 41 , Horse , , 1 bars , 135 exp , 3/10 , 1 kill , 228 pp [+66 exp]
Sibirskaya Pekhota 41 , ZIS-5 , , 1 bars , 184 exp , 3/10 , 1 kill , 288 pp [+148 exp]

Tank
* T-34/41 , , 3 bars , 327 exp , 10/10 , 12 kill , 0 pp [+4 exp]
T-34/41 , cpt. Luis - defense , 4 bars , 400 exp , 10/10 , Determined Defense , 24 kill , 600 pp [+12 exp]
T-34/41 , , 4 bars , 448 exp , 8/10 , Combat Support , 21 kill , 600 pp [+44 exp]
T-34/41 , , 2 bars , 217 exp , 9/10 , 8 kill , 600 pp [+8 exp]
T-34/41 , , 2 bars , 232 exp , 10/10 , 10 kill , 600 pp [+12 exp]
T-34/57 , , 0 bars , 77 exp , 10/10 , 1 kill , 612 pp [+2 exp]

Recon
* BA-10 , cpt. Para - resil , 2 bars , 248 exp , 10/10 , Resilience , 3 kill , 0 pp [+10 exp]
BA-27M , , 2 bars , 212 exp , 10/10 , 3 kill , 252 pp [+3 exp]

Anti-Tank
* YaG-10 , , 4 bars , 456 exp , 6/10 , Battlefield Intelligence , 5 kill , 0 pp [+66 exp]

Flak
MG 40 , Horse , , 1 bars , 179 exp , 5/10 , 2 kill , 168 pp [+31 exp]
MG 40 , Horse , , 0 bars , 89 exp , 5/10 , 0 kill , 168 pp [+32 exp]

Artillery
* 152mm M1937 (ML-20) , KhPZ Voroshilovets , , 3 bars , 329 exp , 9/10 , Street Fighter , 8 kill , 0 pp [+57 exp]
120mm M1938 Mortar , ZIS-6 , , 3 bars , 369 exp , 10/10 , 2 kill , 384 pp [+65 exp]
120mm M1938 Mortar , ZIS-6 , , 2 bars , 234 exp , 10/10 , 2 kill , 384 pp [+6 exp]
120mm M1938 Mortar , ZIS-6 , , 2 bars , 270 exp , 10/10 , 3 kill , 384 pp [+10 exp]
76mm M1939 (USV) , ZIS-6 , , 3 bars , 362 exp , 10/10 , 0 kill , 264 pp [+30 exp]
76mm M1939 (USV) , ZIS-6 , , 1 bars , 182 exp , 10/10 , 0 kill , 264 pp
+ 76mm M1942 (ZiS-3) , Gaz-AAA , , 0 bars , 96 exp , 5/10 , 0 kill , 0 pp [+54 exp]

Air-Defence
76mm M1938 , Yag-4 , , 1 bars , 187 exp , 10/10 , 3 kill , 372 pp [+79 exp]
76mm M1938 , Yag-4 , cpt. Clemens - kill , 2 bars , 278 exp , 10/10 , Overwhelming Attack , 1 kill , 372 pp [+31 exp]

Fighter
* LaGG-3 Aces , , 3 bars , 351 exp , 7/10 , Air Defense, 13 kill , 0 pp [+67 exp]
LaGG-3 Aces , cpt. Patrick - shock , 2 bars , 240 exp , 8/10 , Shock Tactics , Air Defense, 12 kill , 1296 pp [+41 exp]

Player 1 : USSR
Killed: INF:52 TNK:30 RCN:12 AT:12 FLAK:5 FORT:1 ATY:20 AD:8 FTR:10 TB:14 LB:4 Total: 168
Lost : INF:8 TNK:4 AT:1 FLAK:1 AD:1 Total: 15

BV 6
V 0
TV 0
L 0

Averages:
Infantry * 6 Units * 0 Leaders Total : 1050 exp, 15 kill, 984 pp Average: 175 exp, 3 kill, 164 pp
Tank * 6 Units * 2 Leaders Total : 1701 exp, 76 kill, 3012 pp Average: 284 exp, 13 kill, 502 pp
Recon * 2 Units * 1 Leaders Total : 460 exp, 6 kill, 252 pp Average: 230 exp, 3 kill, 126 pp
Anti-Tank * 1 Units * 1 Leaders Total : 456 exp, 5 kill, 0 pp Average: 456 exp, 5 kill, 0 pp
Flak * 2 Units * 0 Leaders Total : 268 exp, 2 kill, 336 pp Average: 134 exp, 1 kill, 168 pp
Artillery * 7 Units * 1 Leaders Total : 1842 exp, 15 kill, 1680 pp Average: 263 exp, 2 kill, 240 pp
Air-Defence * 2 Units * 1 Leaders Total : 465 exp, 4 kill, 744 pp Average: 233 exp, 2 kill, 372 pp
Fighter * 2 Units * 1 Leaders Total : 591 exp, 25 kill, 1296 pp Average: 296 exp, 13 kill, 648 pp
* Summary: * 28 Units * 7 Leaders Total : 6833 exp, 148 kill, 8304 pp Average: 244 exp, 5 kill, 297 pp

[Major Heinz]

I have changed three infantry units into Brückenpioniere. With open bridges the scenario would be unpossible, so the player should at least destroy a few bridges. But as you can see in my playtest thread it is possible to win with only three destroyed bridges. Anyway, I think the player should try to get as fast as he can over 500 ex. with his tanks, so he has a advantage in experience. When you destroy all bridges, the tanks will not get a lot exp, as you can see in your AAR.

[lvjtn]

I think the player should try to get as fast as he can over 500 ex. with his tanks, so he has a advantage in experience. When you destroy all bridges, the tanks will not get a lot exp, as you can see in your AAR.

my tanks are almost the same experienced thair yours: my avg of tanks is 284 exp, yours is 306 exp, and i have a combat support leader. bv here was more important than exp, and this scenario is an easy win or a huge risk

anyway, as your campaign is clearly not ready for playtest, i drop this run and waiting for a state when you played it at least once

[Parabellum]

... as your campaign is clearly not ready for playtest, i drop this run and waiting for a state when you played it at least once

I am not a clairvoyant, but I sensed that. It conforms my impression of the test last year. Therefore I will wait for a revised product with my test.

[Major Heinz]

That the player easily can win for me with blowing the bridges east of Kiev is new for me. Even Para did not do that. Instead he awaited the german Panzer Divisions around the airfield like me. I doubt that a normal player will act like you Csaba, but I will make a change that will the player not allow to blow the bridges east of Kiev. The germans in the east will get an objective hex near the airfield. So they do not will move into the south and if the player will blow the bridges it will be nearly unpossible to recapture the airfield.

[Parabellum]

... Even Para did not do that. ...

that was not scenario specific. I do not use the "blow up bridges et cetera" feature. I stand up to my opponent and fight like a man instead of hiding behind rivers .
@patrick: You have to get used to the fact that Csaba exploits the gaps in your campaign even more mercilessly than I did. That is also the sense of a playtest.

[lvjtn]

You have to get used to the fact that Csaba exploits the gaps in your campaign even more mercilessly than I did. That is also the sense of a playtest.

exactly! i tested lots of campaigns for differing designers, and the ultimate goal why designers asks more people to tests their campaigns before releasing is finding all possible glitches, exploits what they didn't find or didn't think about it at all. actually it's not about "merciless", it's like the crashing test of the car: the designers can be sure their campaigns are safely playable if players with differing playing style at differing prestige levels completed them

this campaign is very promising, i like to play it, i'm eager to finish it, but imo a campaign shouldn't be released to playtest until its own creator (converter) played it at least once (i usually play my own campaign 2-3 times before asking for playtest)

[lvjtn]

I will make a change that will the player not allow to blow the bridges east of Kiev. The germans in the east will get an objective hex near the airfield. So they do not will move into the south and if the player will blow the bridges it will be nearly unpossible to recapture the airfield.

you simply can't disable blowing up the bridge if the player has an infantry, in bk, basically all inf can blow up

you also can't disable to cross a river, if the player has a brigding engineer (it can act as a pontoon even over a blown up hex), and if you remove the aux bridging inf, the players still can buy one

and if you add all germans an objective hex near the central-eastern airfield, they will not attack kiev. if you add an oh for eastern german battlegroups and release the oh after reaching it, they will leave it almost empty (defended by a single inf)

why i wrote the conversion of this scenario is failed is simple: basekorp terrain made this scenario SIGNIFICANTLY different than it was in pg2, the defender side has much more easier job here. that's why i suggested adding 3-3 briging units for western and eastern german battlegroups, then the soviets should use their armors to destroy / halt the german bridgeheads

[randowe]

I already wrote one year ago in the german forum about the strategic and tactical importance of bridges and rivers since thousands of years of warfare and how to cross rivers in the game.
Hollywood even made movies about bridges and some are still well known today, like Remagen, Arnhem, Pegasus or Kwai.
If you study historic situation maps you will often find front lines running along rivers.

To encourage the AI to cross rivers you may use the following options:

- bridging infantry (or tanks/engineer vehicles if available)
- bridging attachments
- bridging leader (create one bridging leader and use it for more than one unit of its class is possible)
- pontoon bridge (available for all countries at ALL NATIONS)
- label a hex STREAM or SWAMP terrain to create a ford
- label rivers ROUGH terrain if you want them to be "frozen" (on a winter map) (announce in briefing)

- the player can also build or repair bridges

[Major Heinz]

I would not say that the scenario is signigiciantily easier in OG. Yes, the player can blow bridges, but that is needed because it is more harder in OG. Even the Default AI is smarter than PG2 AI. Also there are a few abilities that makes the scenario harder like ADs und Flaks which can drive to a plane and shut on it, unities with Q ability etc. Also in OG the airfield in the southwest is a new VH and it is hard to defend, since the player has not so much units.
As you will know it is impossible in PG2 to give victory conditions like that. So I was creative and set a VH for the player in the near of his starting point. But also a TV would have given the most pp, so the player should defend longer to get more pp. But he always can win the game if his army will become in trouble. In OG ideas like that are not necessary, since the player has more possible victory conditions. But with this victory condition the players army can get in real trouble in the defensive scenarios.
It is totally ok that you find glitches and I am thankful that you have mentioned the problem, why the germans in Minsk do not attack Borisov. I find these mistake in other scenarios, too. All I wanted to say is that you (Para and Csaba) are experts in the game. I am only worried how a bad player can win scenarios like this, if I eg would disable can blow in Suite. Will a noob destroy the bridges, too?
To end this discussion I will give the eastern germans three bridging units (the western I haven given three bridging units yesterday). Also I will edit three river hexes into swamp, so there is a possibility to cross rivers even with destroyed bridges. But I will make the swamp hexes on points where the player still has the possibility to stop the breached germans.
Yes, some scenarios in this version are not tested, but it is not right that the campaign never was tested. I tested it three times, and three times before as it was a PG2 campaign. Critical changes can maybe be in 10% of the scenarios. Surely 95% of the campaign is the same like in the last test.
But it is totally okay if you both will wait, until I have finished my test. Since Clemens wanted to publish his efile after the playtest I just not wanted to lose time and asked. I just underestimated how many scenarios you play a day
I will send you the files after my test is over.

[lvjtn]

I would not say that the scenario is signigiciantily easier in OG.

i got an easy bv without almost firing a single shot, what do you call it, if not easy?

the player can blow bridges, but that is needed because it is more harder in OG.

it WOULD BE harder if the player lets the a.i. cross the river, yes, but this trick (blocking the river crossing) made this scenario extremly easy. and not only this scenario, but basicaly all defensive scenarios where the terrain favors the defender, so not only behind rivers, but any bottleneck-like scenarios (e.g. thermopylae). this comes from the efile, not opengen, you just should take the different terrain rules into a consideration when designing for this efile

anyway, as i see, you tend to ignore that i play at 25% and my core is almost half strong compared to what Para had at 100%, so i simply couldn't deal with the full german army here. imo your "fix" absolutely shouldn't be a way to make this scenario miserable at 100%, just finding a solution which would make my trick a bit harder, but not unwinnable the scenario at 25%! e.g. you can add more german pontoon/bridging units as we discussed, or you can add a small airborne kampfgruppe landing somewhere behind the frontlines (maybe on other similar scenarios).

disabling the "blow" (which is 100% incompatible with the spirit of basekorp-style efiles) would make this scenario unwinnable at 25%, i guess. please, find a balance, a fine tuning. a bv at 25% should be hard, but the scenarios should be winnable.

you (Para and Csaba) are experts in the game. I am only worried how a bad player can win scenarios like this, if I eg would disable can blow in Suite. Will a noob destroy the bridges, too?

a noob usually plays at 150-200%, don't worry and if you want players giving a hint how to win: just write a few words in the briefing. see the briefings in the lxf efile: they usually have 1-2 lines hints what can be useful for the rookies

it is not right that the campaign never was tested.

you said the last tested scenario was kishinev (4rth in the row), not me. so i'm completely confused now but that's the best what you wrote: please, send me the (re)fixed campaign, when at least the first 20-25 scenarios are (re)tested by you in their latest versions

+1, don't count on me judging the perfect cap, at 25% i never will be close to the cap, i guess. it's only a generic advice, that players at 100% should regulary hit the cap unless they burn the prestige in frequent upgrades, attachments, in-scenario refitting

[Major Heinz]

Hopefully my changes will not lead to a not possible BV @25%. I cannot test it because I am not good enough, so I will have to wait until you test it.
But I could gain a BV with the nothern bridge open, respectively with swamp hexes on the river in the northwest, so you should can do it, too. Especially because there are possibilies to block and slow down the germans a little bit through droping mines (this feature I have not used yet in this test).
I always thought that a BV on 100% should be possible and not @25%

you said the last tested scenario was kishinev (4rth in the row), not me. so i'm completely confused now but that's the best what you wrote: please, send me the (re)fixed campaign, when at least the first 20-25 scenarios are (re)tested by you in their latest versions

Maybe there was a missunderstanding. Yes I have tested the whole campaign and Randowe, too. Para did not tested the whole campaign, only until the end of one path. The most scenarios are clear and have not changed. Only in a few scenarios some changes can be critical eg in Tula BV limit can be not high enough after the changes and Demyansk scenario is not tested, yet. Also Clemens and I sometimes talk about some changes for a scenario after and before we have posted it here. Mostly they are not important but it is not necessary if the testers will use different versions of the scenarios, so I wanted that the testers wait until I have posted the scenarios and made eventually changes.
Also I have seen after the hint that the airfield in Minsk is only a VH for soviets and the AI rushed only to it, that this problem is in other scenarios, too (also in Kiew). It was not recognized in our tests a year ago. So I should fix this things, too. The problem here is that in the old PG2 Suite the check boxes were for player 1 and player 2, while in OG the first check box is always for axis. If you are new in the OG Suite you will overlook it, like I did as I started to use the Suite

Anyway, maybe it is better, if we wait
I just was a little confused, since I had the feeling that you meaned that I have never tested or played the campaign.
After 1942 there are no scenarios there I have done big changes.