Four Our Freedom and Yours Panzer General II Help please.

[JD2020]

First, a little bit of back story on how I got here:

a friend was cleaning out his PC games collection and he gave me several of them including Panzer General II. I have been playing it for several months. Took me a while to learn the strategy of it, etc. Finally finish all the stock campaign and I started searching for more and I found this:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_FVVB ... wNDYy/view

So I started playing the Das Reich campaign by jurgen wonderdoctor and I got stuck on The 4th battle of Kharkov where a secret HEX is suppose to appear in turn 10 but it didn't.

I Google jurgen wonderdoctor and found his email address in an old thread here http://www.panzercentral.com/forum/view ... hp?t=37610

I sent him an email hoping it would still be active and yes it was. He replied and told me where the secret HEX is but apparently in Adlerkorp campaigns pack of the version of Das Reich I am playing, it was removed.

In his email he also told me that there is now a new Panzer General forum: Open General, which is how I found this place.

I finally finish Das Reich and I am playing the Four Our Freedom and Yours campaign .

In the Warsaw siege, how do I finish with a Victory?

Brilliant VIctory in 3 turns is impossible.

I have tried to take all the enemy HEX (2 on top, 1 on far left, 1 on bottom right) but can't do it with Victory or Brilliant Victor or a Tactical Victory even if I use up all the turn.

Or am I even suppose to take the enemy HEX?

I Google it and found this and this player didn't say anything about taking them, sound like he just held on to all the Warsaw HEX until the end.

http://www.panzercentral.com/forum/view ... rs#p572105

I decided to defend!
First goal was to get my units out of german ATY-range.
Second goal was to shell as much german INF as possible down to 7 strength or less.
Third goal was to destroy as much of them as possible.
Fourth goal was to survive.
All done.
At the last turn I held all Warsaw hexes.

Does moving any units outside of Warsaw regardless if you take the enemy HEX or not results in automatic loss?

I even try to take out all the enemy units without venturing outside of Warsaw and leaving the enemy HEX alone but that is not possible.

I don't have enough units or have the air power to do it. Either way by the end of the last Tactical Victory turn, there is still plenty of enemy around especially their ME and FW fighters which my ONE little Word War 1 fighter plane is no match for.

I just want to finish this mission with a Victory instead of a Tactical Victory so I can move on to the next map in the campaign.

Sorry about the LONG post.

TIA for your help.

[HexCode]

# JD2020 #

I hope you won't perceive this "radical move" of your topic as a slight. The reason for the move is this:

Sometime ago, # lvjtn # (Csaba), a "Red Administrator", posted elsewhere in these forums:

it's like the opengen subforum: it's not a "pg2 + opengen" forum, but pg2 is the ancestor of opengen, and it's impossible to completely separate them, so there will always be posts and threads about pg2 issues in the opengen subforum, same for pg1 vs. pgf

In any case, welcome to these forums.

[JD2020]

Thank you HexCode.

I've gone back and replay it 2 times AFTER replaying the previous Kampinoski Forest map twice to finish with a Brilliant Victory and not one unit lost.

there is a bug in that map:

there are 3 German HEX to take. One on top right corner, one on top middle, one on bottom middle.

If you take two of them without taking the one on the bottom, the game still ends in Brilliant Victory even with dozen of German units still on the map.

So here are my results of replaying the Warsaw siege map twice:

1. holding on defense and using my artillery to keep the enemy from rushing the city and taking my all my HEX.

I defended until the last turn with all my HEX in my control which still results in loss.

2. Same as above and at same time rushing those fast APC toward the enemy HEX, 2 on the left, 2 on top, one on the bottom.

With no turns left I was able to take 3 of them but I still lose.

Losing with a Tactical Victory ends the campaign.

It's not possible to win:

1. not enough ground units even with the extra units that the map had on added to the ones I brought with me and there is also not enough prestige to replace all my ground units with artillery.

2. not enough air power on my side: a few bombers and 1 fighter is no match for the Luftwaffe coming at me with Stukas and Donier bombers and with Messerschmitts and Focke Wulf fighters.

[mythos]

Hi JD and to the forums

In the Warsaw siege, how do I finish with a Victory?

Brilliant VIctory in 3 turns is impossible.

In many older campaigns you will find scenarios where a specific type of victory (Brilliant/Decisive, or "normal" ) is impossible, sometimes even the Tactical victory cannot be achieve - this is intended.
I have to confess though that i don't remember if "For Our Freedom and Yours" belongs to these campaigns.

I have tried to take all the enemy HEX (2 on top, 1 on far left, 1 on bottom right) but can't do it with Victory or Brilliant Victor or a Tactical Victory even if I use up all the turn.

Or am I even suppose to take the enemy HEX?

I am a bit confused: you said "2 on top", i see only 1, so it seems we are looking at 2 different versions.
Anyway, the basic idea should have stayed the same between versions, thus: looking at the scenario, it seems you are supposed to defend against the enemy attack, and, once there is some space, then move out to take the Hexes (Victory Hexes, VH for short). Maybe there is another hidden VH somewhere.


Sorry i cannot be of more help.

[JD2020]

I am done with this.

Someone changed it before they put it in the multi campaigns map.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_FVVB ... wNDYy/view

I was able to get Victory and taking the 5 Victory Hexes which still resulted in a loss.

The long debrief afterward said I ventured out of the city which I am not supposed to.

Guess all ground units are supposed to stay within the city and the enemy Victory Hexes to be left alone.

The one step above Victory is Brilliant VIctory which is impossible in only 5 turns I believe.

Outnumbered 3 or 4 to 1 in ground unit and 10 to 1 in air power, it's impossible.

After I lost getting Victory, I replayed it without going for the enemy Victory Hexes.

I was able to decimate all the enemy ground units with 3 turns left and guess what?

Here comes the Luftwaffe: 2 bomber, 4 fighters against my 2 little World War 1 fighters.

No way I can win.

A tactical win also results in a loss.

The only way to win is a Victory without going for the enemy Victory Hexes and take out ALL the enemy units, both on the ground and in the air.

[JD2020]

I am playing the For King and Empire campaign by Generalleutenant Von Adler which is also part of this same campaign pack, #55D on the list:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_FVVB ... wNDYy/view

I done alright so far, got one brilliant victory and victories.

Then I get to Operation Overlord and that's the trouble.

pressing F11 or Print Screen for screenshot but the image comes out garbled so I took photos:

There is only 4 squares off the coast for deployment.



There is 2 British Victory HEX on the bottom right corner guarded by one red beret paratroopers unit with a hit point of 6.

]

The number of German Victory HEX to take outnumbers my 4 units I can deploy.



I decided to get 4 paratroopers unit in a fast jeep and air transport.

It's not possible even if I put each one to a German VIctory HEX and take 4 of them within 4 turns, now I have no air transport anymore.

I have to use the 4 jeeps to get them across the map to the other Victory HEXes and on the way they run into hidden artillery and tanks and ground unit.

Can't win. Also when I take a German Victory HEX and I leave to go to the next one, they come with a tank or APC and take it back.

I even try taking all 4 units and put them in the bottom right corner with that one red beret paratroopers unit and hold the 2 British Victory HEXes until all turns are done including tactical victory turns.

That results in an Allied loss and me being dismissed from command.

I have not tried to see if the map results in an allied loss if I just forget the 2 British Victory HEXes and let the Germans take them.

Maybe they are there to throw you off.

UPDATE:

I tried that. Letting the German take the 2 British Victory HEXes does not end the map but it's still impossible.

Too much terrain to cover and too few units and any German HEX you take gets taken back.

[Parabellum]

...
There is only 4 squares off the coast for deployment.

OK, I don't know the campaign. So I don't know if my hint is helpful: are there really only four deployment hexes? Or are there eight - four in the air for paratroopers and four at sea in landing craft. The order of the line-up is important - first the paratrooper! After that, four hex should be free among the paratroopers for units without air transport. But I am not sure . Please test it.

[JD2020]

Hi Parabellum. They are really only 4. In the air or on the sea, one or the other.

I am going to try tomorrow to deploy 4 tanks and land them on the coast.

But with 10 enemy victory hexes to take in a total of 15 turns, that's still impossible.

Again, the enemy will retake a victory hex once you leave and with only 4 units, that is if they all survive the fight for each hex, there is not enough to guard all of them.

[Ale]

not sure what game are you using, a bit of confusion from your initial post sorry, but in any case use Open General game from this site http://www.open-general.com/

after game installed, you can install additional packs like "CC pack" which contains "For king and empire" as CC 47. Haven't tried it myself via that pack but i guess it should work as intended in game.

played it many years ago - as many members on ex-forum you linked to - do not remember any troubles with Overlord and beside 4 core units there are auxiliary units on your side, making it winnable

[JD2020]

The only auxiliary unit is the red beret paratroopers who do not stand a chance against a tank, 3 infantry unit and 1-2 towed artillery coming at them from all sides - even when I am refueling them every other turn - their hit point just keep dwindling until they are dead.

I will give the Open General a try.

[JD2020]

So I went back and replay the Siege of Warsaw mission of For Our Freedom and Yours that I mention in my original post.

Same as the other day: I was able to take out all the German ground units and then spent the remaining 5-6 turns fighting off the horde of German fighters and bombers.

I was able to take out one of their ME109 with the orange nose and a gray Dornier twin engine bomber.

But just like last week, when I was at the final turn to be tactical victory and the Luftwaffe still had aircraft in the air, it told me the same thing again:

ALLIED LOSS....

except instead of getting the screen saying I have been dismissed and the blood of the Poles are flowing or something on the streets of Warsaw,

it gave a screen showing a General receiving some medal.

I don't know what happened, it's an allied loss like the ones I had before, but I will take it.

I even made multiple save and put 2 copies on my 2 hard drives.

This was a hard win because last week I gave up and I deleted the save games.

Today I decided to try again and I had to replay the 3 missions prior to it first.

I am now in Norway at Narvik with the objective of capturing a port and keeping it away from the German Navy or something.

Will continue playing tomorrow.

[JD2020]

Those poor Poles had it rough!

They were using old airplanes and tanks against the Germans.

Airplanes with this kind of wing design. There is probably a correct name for it but I don't know it. I know it's not biplane.:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtiss_O-52_Owl

Then I get send to Norway and France, I had even less choices of artillery and fighter and no tanks to choose from.

I lost most of my tanks and artillery in Poland and I had nothing in Norway and France to choose from to replenish my army with.

They were fighting along side the French and the British to stop the Germans from entering France from Belgium and Holland.

The French and British didn't give them newer equipment?

After losing in France, they send me to North Africa to fight alongside the Australian in the defense of Tobruk.

I didn't know the Poles and Australian were at Tobruk. I looked it up and yes they were.

Only after winning two battles at Tobruk and having the Afrika Korps on the run, no longer commanded by Rommel, did the game give me newer equipment like Spitfire VC for bomber and Hurricane and Spitfire fighters.

I have been stuck using these for the 8-9 missions since the beginning of the campaign going back to 1939:

these are the fighters I had to use during the Siege of Warsaw that took me a week and over 2 dozen replays to get past it with a victory:

https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraf ... aft_id=614

https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraf ... aft_id=618

and this bomber for the entire first 7 mission from Poland to Norway and France.

https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraf ... ft_id=1795

Only did after I got to Tobruk did it give me this which were just slightly better but still pretty useless against German tanks, artillery and armored vehicles:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairey_Battle

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_Beaufighter

My next battle will be in Ghazala and looking it up, the allies lost big time.

Looks like I will lose this one too:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gazala

[JD2020]

I am still in North Africa chasing the Afrika Korps. I need to go back to school and learn some of these battles. I never heard of this one.

When you hear North Africa and Afrika Korps, you think of Rommel, El Alamein, Tobruk, Kasserine Pass.

By the way, when it's 80-100 degrees outside, the inside of your car can get to 160 or more.

But you turn the A/C on and run it for a few minutes and all is fine.

Can you imagine being in a tank in North Africa? No A/C.

I wonder how many tank crew on both the Axis and Allies side died from heat exhaustion from being in a hot stuffy tank breathing the stifling heat.

[Ale]

i'm more interested in older history myself since early days, guess i had some periods of greater interests in 20th century events, but generally not "my feild"...

but yes, this kind of thinking about details on events and different angles on them is what makes some stories fascinating, isn't it... we will never find sources to complete our knowledge so we create pictures in head, trying to imagine. From technicalities (how was it really to dig a mine in XIV c, for example) to conversation or behavior among historical (or less historical) figures. At least for newer events of your interest there are more sources, photos and even filmed material

just "btw" thought on history, properly said there.... regarding Open general, i mentioned it because most of people here are using it, if you are to stay around and talk experiences, not obligatory

[JD2020]

I found this on Wiki, many of them I never heard or knew about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_W ... II_battles

[JD2020]

Finally got out of North Africa, barely too.

I am still playing as the Poles.

Just got sent to Monte Cassino.

The Poles are finally getting new equipment.

Mustang III fighters, Sherman and Valentine tanks, 155 mm and 182 mm artillery, M16 AA guns mounted on motorized vehicle, Mosquito and Lancaster attack bombers, Wolverine anti tank vehicle, Cromwell Cruiser tank and even paratroopers.

update: I need to win at Monte Cassino. Brilliant Victory even if I have to replay it 100 times.

I just read the Wiki page for it and it was the Poles who captured the Abbey after 4 months of bitter fighting between Allied troops and German troops.

The flag that was raised over the Abbey to signal the capture of it was the Polish flag.

[JD2020]

Monte Cassino is tough. I already played it twice since this morning. You take one or two step and an enemy position appear.

Whether is a bunker with a gun or a machine gun or an artillery that can hit you from 3-4 squares away, it makes advancing very slow.

Each time an enemy position appear out of nowhere and my unit is in its firing range, it takes a hit.

[JD2020]

Finally got out of Monte Cassino and Piemonte. I won a regular victory but I lost many good infantry and artillery units. Those Nazis wouldn't give up an inch.

[JD2020]

Wow!

How do you win this?

Russia outnumbers Germany a lot to 1 and they are all fortified down.

Luftwaffe is useless here.

[lvjtn]

stalingrad played on the axis side in a polish campaign? are you still playing fofy?

anyway, as everybody said: players on this forum have been abandoned pg2 for a long time and switeched to open general. while the two games are similar, not completely the same, and there are several new tactics in opengen (like blowing up hexes) which can make different playing a stalingrad-like scenario, so please undrstand, we can't help to solve all your pg2-related problems, most of us don't have this game anymore

in general, the way you can win a siege of a big city is this:

• use your recons to spot more space
• have some (the more the better) long range guns with high ha/sa, like 17cm k18 and decimate the soviet guns (arty and air defense too) first (later whatever is in their range)
• use your planes to soften the entrenched positions
• use your combat engineers (like the german sturmpioniere) to knock out the remnant inf sitting in the city hexes
• don't use your tanks in the city, but in the open terrains of the perimeters (there are usually soviet counterattacks in the north, east and sometimes in the south on a stalingrad map)
• use the ports to cross the volga OR some brigding inf (like the german brückenpioniere), if the water-like hex is river and not ocean

scenarios like this are usually hard to win, requires more patience and attention, but are winnable

[JD2020]

stalingrad played on the axis side in a polish campaign? are you still playing fofy?

Yes I am still playing FOFY but this Stalingrad map is from the MillerBlitz campaign.

I got 2 campaigns going at once.

Thank you for your hints, lvjtn. I didn't know about the bridging and engineers infantry. I seen them in the units choices but didn't know what they do.

[lvjtn]

I didn't know about the bridging and engineers infantry.

then i strongly recommend to read the original pg2 manual to learn the basic unit and class specials, because harder scenarios aren't winnable if you aren't familiar with them

Chris also copied some useful hints for playing pg2 to this forum

[JD2020]

COOL, thanks!!

My friend didn't have the manual anymore. Guess I should had looked for it online before playing via trial and error.

[JD2020]

I am still playing this every day the past 3 months especially with the mandatory shelter at home for 2 months of those 3 months, I am playing it more often.

I am learning a lot too and learning to skip turns to resupply and reheal my units or to just sit back and let the enemy come to me.

What would be a typical basic unit?

I try to have 2 tanks, 2 artillery, 1 anti tank if possible, one infantry, one engineer or bridge, one scout and for air support one bomber and one fighter:

of course it all depends on how much prestige I have. All that stuff cost money.

Man, those Russians.

Many missions playing as the German and going up against the Russians.

After many turns and still a handful of turns left, when my units are exhausted, low on ammo, depleted, some destroyed, with only one or 2 HEX left to take and when it seems there is nothing left on the map, BOOM, here comes more Russians out of nowhere.

Everything you can think of: tanks, anti tanks, artillery, infantry and lots of it, more fighters, more bombers. Seems like the Russians never run out of stuff.

[mythos]

What would be a typical basic unit?

I try to have 2 tanks, 2 artillery, 1 anti tank if possible, one infantry, one engineer or bridge, one scout and for air support one bomber and one fighter

According to Prestige and Prestige Cap limitations as well as Unit Pricing, and generally speaking - i try building a 30-35 units core with at least:
- 3 tanks (for Overruns, each can lead 1 battlegroup)
- 6 combat engineers (for city fighting)
- 12 artillery and bombers (bombers cannot operate during Rain/Snow, but they reduce traffic jams which occur often enough to make bombers legit - besides: artillery also suffers penalties during Rain/Snow)
- 3 recon cars
- 6 fighters
* that's 30 units. The remaining 1-5 units are then filled with Prototypes (either fitting or replacing the above, or for example Anti-Tank), maybe AT units (if the Efile offers something interesting), more tanks, more fighters or more infantry - maybe even more recon units

An individual battlegroup then consists of (only taking the 30 from above):
- 1 tank
- 2 combat engineers
- up to 4 "artillery" (bombers are often ahead of the battlegroups)
- 1 recon car
- 1 fighter (2 if there are nearby bombers to protect)



This is not the perfect way, but it works for my strategy: all units except tanks prepare overruns, tanks overrun

[JD2020]

Thank you Mythos.