my pub themes and similar

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Re: my pub themes and similar

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...as said i reject theories of Serb German origin (as well as Sarmat but some around, might be maybe more as they moved form some area more sourceful) while similarity with some "Suebi" for example exists etc (ironically it is our not pejorative but folk terms for Germs) not so much on racial basis but as talked and won't repeat, on linguistical as number of germanisms is not enough for it, as well as sarmatisms... to me most likely highly romainised as number of latinisms is proportionally much higher and way of (esp. old) is closest to elite Latin etc.

lighter theme, wasn't much today.... you know why Germans were highly handicaped compared to Italians, us, Greeks (for known examples) in way that we never could recognize them as "truly Roman emperors" in some classical sense or early empire, Kesarian till Vespasianus to say ; ...well no matter how muchthey tried somehow they couldn't make "imperial German bodyguards" as all their imperial troops were German anyway :lol so no that clear disctinction and something we could do :)

for end, as i doubt that people in the west know also... Greeks are constantly avoiding Dushan, there was no recorded bigger battle just some towns changed hands, sieges and similar.... both Kantakouzenos and Paleologos troops never gave any bigger battle, and both tried to make him ally etc. Kanta holds field army in Thrace around 1350 mainly because of Dushan, but takes it back during Venice-Genova war, but mostly avoidance of battle.... strange avoidance in both east and west, but it was not "fear" as some our historians put, it was something else and i tried to explain to extent... so i always laugh at Pierre-Peter Thomas, it really is funny "he wants to conquer Byzant and we cant do anything about it" for example.... yeah to put some light, Dushan talks with French papacy in his final years, offering them union, demanding title "captain of Europe" etc. - but as both Andrea and Ludwig (years ago) are dead and Colonnas without much say to any important ruler except HIM etc so was "isolated" in moment and so on..... as said, watched "the name of the rose" first time in the 80s or early 90s, of course knowing nothing, but was relatively ppopular and repeated film on our then TVs... probably sense, when i started to understand its plot was "what we had to do with these western eventsand papa-Jacques".... today all can say "oh you mean....".... million time repeat it would be awful if Umberto died without at least some title from us, so he gained doctorate properly :yes lovely and hopfully helpful to all lovers.... it was some struggle maybe raging and changing tone and parties since "fall of Ruma" basically, we involved very much...
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Re: my pub themes and similar

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and BTW again, not to be some logical and historical mistake in interpret - non of our Nemanjic kings was completely some "Byzantophile" nor clash between them in dynasty was ever basically of some east and west-chruches in substance, just people to understand... when they clashed between themselves, brothers, half-bros, father-son etc. non of them was "we are going to catholics or Byzant, we are their world" :) and similar.... so cute example (older Miluten is other but we talked him enough) is SU III i.e. Stefan Dechanski nicked.... he wasn't "eastern" king (to say so for definition), he cooped very good with franciscans as well, less good with Hungary of time (that's real substance in some our internal clashes) and during his time Paleolog Byzantine empire and Second Bulgar made a pact for attack on Rascia (often use this exonym as somehow med Serbia wasn't similar to today and to make distinction with earlier states etc).... so in short he was very much also like many other our kings and had same western ties etc. it was not in core any east-west churches clash.... why he and Dushan clashed not completely clear, maybe more aggressive nobility (as is quasi story) or Dechanski was indeed more autoritarian figure, fighting anyone against him to extent or he wanted to side Dushan for younger half-brother etc etc. No clear answer but it is idiotic to understand HIM as some "western player" and Dechanski some "eastern/Byzantine" as it is wrong ;) ....similar is with Miluten again in one sentence - when he clashes with his half-brother later in life it is maybe more some "pro papal and pro Hungarian faction" versus some Miluten stand and as said he calls French papacy to help etc... so, not to waste words not east-west clash nor "pro Byzant vs pro west" etc. by very wrong ;) interprets....

in our case it was always (more closely to truth while we don't know all details) some "factions and more pro papal or Hungarian or even Luxembourg house versus some Dandolo Colonna, anti-papal etc etc.... none of our kings from dynasty was completely Byzant friendly nor would ever submit to them, while Byzantine artists, wives were present etc. among them, to understand it properly if lover, as said understanding our medieval history is "important" for us, merely not to have wrong fame about figures and not to think that some clashes were of totally wrong substance.... today of course it is not appliable as every normal, freedom loving person likes just North Korea or Iran :lol .....always join and lets look at some story from you, if from principessa of course few quests and what's new there in some interprets, your country and clashes there was most important for time history )
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Re: my pub themes and similar

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and beside given guidances on reading middle ages, other one - maybe most important :) - is that deep i.e. details knowledge is required ; ...it is indeed more about details and personalities on functions than functions, lines, branches and positions themselves etc.... while not true that negating factional and even greater groupings is irrelevant, but finding some balance

so things like "papacy", "French crown" or "French papacy" last esp. big construction often used, maybe not so "French" as some think but yes, no need to soften it up - rarely ever French pope, even those predating infamous Avignon times and there were few, was ready to punch important French figures :) like kings or Stefan Anjou for example etc.... but it is construction, verbal and historical "Frank papalitaat" ;...so what saying, details above constructions... why saying, Milten talked most with Clement (and i deeply believe with Philip via him) though he continued with papa-Jacques as well, but he was more ready to punch him :) and wasn't so much French crown pope, while was as followed etc.... basically again construction, even i forced to use sometimes so pardon my horny rose ) for incorrect terms etc. but was "French friendlier" than most of us when it comes to punches :) ...BUT it was Colonna Clement and Philip (and Miluten) versus later more Orsini ifluenced papa-Jacques, there were BTW few Jacques among, even in time consequence - but i always call "John XXII" as mostly, reallylonger rule and punched most of us of "ghibelline old Capet try" faction...

details, details, that is medievalism in core and basics, so detailed knowledge and personalities as said who likes... of course during discourses i also made many mistakes which i corrected via personally forgotten/not being cared/not known etc. details and always totally disregarded narratives and got this final versions etc. of course it is not just mine but product of investigations and similar to many historians i guess etc.... so it might be that more "fall of Tusculum" created our dynasty indirectly than "fall of Constant" etc. for starting point...... about other things i did not even talk so will talk later ..... :lol joking this is the end until you join P.

fun fact, while it is Italian name of guess no monopoly, liked how few Orsinis were named Napoleon :) ...but totally unimportant and merely fine joke as i few times tried to connect famous Napoleon with Philip's debt to Miluten and similar things, so very funny and just that
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Re: my pub themes and similar

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also to say for other lovers of themes, mainly French (or Occitan etc) is detail i liked very much about papa-Jacques, great pope btw who always was photographed with waving 3 fingers :) .....namely he almost, considering how tense situation was (but he also was relatively forceles in central Italy at moment) in those years, was close to also enter books as first pope to destroy and salt Rome :) ...one cardinal Orsini, mainly because Sarra and gang there, placed it under interdict, least severe of all sanctions in their repertoir etc. and is unknown what was papal stand (but he wouldn't do it without pope knowing) but could be said it was Jacques decision, not big violation of history...... so imagine just how great it would be if one pope salted Rome, i joked so much about Palestrina alone but this would be gross and i would never stop :) ....while that interdict wasn't first in history of Rome (but very rare) it was unique considering huge electricity and Sarra inthere etc - for lovers of papal history big story how close it was to Jacques enter history books on theme as first pope to salt Rome, almost as big as story of ones before that "raped nuns" (allegedly, those are all stories often used to attack figures)

so like papa-Jaques, papa Scarface ) and much much like St Sarra (only in Serb orthodox-catholicism-pagan church though, for now, but i wrote to now dead pope about ideas but now doubt it will be realized with his passing etc) Sara one of my heroes of mid ages, so he almost also led to first papal salting of Rome :) great events and glad we took part, almost gained one (quasi as he never declared) crusade from papa-Jacques, we would be really meaningless without it as he did it with Geramny, England and how to miss us :) but he was great and most loved pope in Albania :lol .... lovely stories no sarcasm but with usual humor, if you have any hobbies or story, always share. Papal histories always eventful and interesting, even have quest for eventual American lovers, why they think Innocent and Gregory are only two represented on that congressional relief etc Innocent (now think not really relative maybe, some confusion just maybe) is also characteristic in many ways - interdicted half of Europe in some times, but couldn't do anything to us as we were not kingdom yet.... for long confusion was present who really elevated Rascia to kingdom, even today many think him and many years are dubious as seen, but it seems now it is semi-official that it was Honorius III, not on your releif and from Salvini family :) (Saveli, Sabines, a bit neutral and also obscure family in all things, guess Colonna wish) etc etc... but might be him by some interprets - sent us crown just before he excommunicated all Nemanides forever :)

(if you gonna make Templar videos in future, better always ask expert first)
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Re: my pub themes and similar

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Honorius III - as name says :) - to say to our history lovers from head, was relatively "OK" pope but far, far from perfect as he supported Louis VIII of France expansion south etc. Avignon became more French etc etc but compared to many others :) .... what is interesting from not so huge bio is that he was Roman born and loved by people of city, unlike even many Italian popes not often from city itself and he has tie with us.... there was rarely "good pope" and why i ask Americans for example (except their some ties/regulations with Jews of his time as obvious, but even there controversial) what else makes those two special etc.... since there i ask Euro youth :) who is your fav med papa and why - write on subject to me :p

regarding us, why i also say dubious (among other things)) was it he or Inokent as he had practice to just confirm previous papal decissions, so our elevation might be one of them while original by Inokent, lets say eaten :) ...but no reason not to accept it was him etc. nor crucial.... short explain to readers - title "king of Serbia" or "of Serbs" was controversial and disputed thing in time, as said even Emeric of Hungary claimed it. Maybe even having some "ancient weight" and why Romans found themselves "obliged" to intervene and judge on subject, for example also, and why Italian queen was needed, also for example ;... there was most likely no crowning nor crown, while legate was probably present, as besides thing said it was understood that "crown is already there" and title "king of Serbs/ia" should just be transfered etc.... to get some rough, and very shortened, picture what were controversies in all that, who did it, why, who had right.... maybe one of the reasons (like many of our symbolism btw) why even republic restored it on flag, though seems illogical maybe to confirm its "ancient weight" etc. and why it goes with 3 fingers and aquila and "temple" :) ....we are funny but true details on disputes and hopefully understoond, could be joint decission by both Inoken and Honorius etc... btw, not so important as it was often practice in times, but for fun events before given title also to some extent looked like Italians - as few decades before Ras fort was also salted and ruined etc :) ....as said write to me on given subjects, if we around :)
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Re: my pub themes and similar

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yes, again i find it interesting so to repeat here how many symbolism we accepted (or kept hehe) and many others abandoned but were their etc. from "sacra privata" to right shoulder cross, kolo-dance :) so also that 3 fingers and really many more.... forgot lesson nor important in details, basically Roman maybe some gesture by pontifex maximus etc (meaning Mars, Servius and then Uranus)).... like many that lived through middle ages but died out in many parts and in others if survived totally lost origin trace or idea what is it etc. mutated. Many are such examples from really "death skull" as from Roman times via us further, and talking about it all is sadly always "anecdotal" but it doesn't mean untrue, just can't be traced so hardly any photo of old Rome survived (and if it did it would be eaten or is in some Vaticanus kelia))

so shortly anecdotaly on 3 fingers... maybe you know that story that all/majority of modern army salutes date to some med knights raising often helmet-visors, also anecdote but maybe true... in this case for us (and why it remained in us also) is not just religious and maybe like others, so anecdotaly again our knights "signaled" with 3 fingers to both enemy and friend (and among themselves) as "it was judged in Rome or by Romans" or "it is our" or even just "Romans" etc. to get some picture (while for others maybe just religious meaning, but for us almost national signal)... no source of course so it remains story as many, but i again say that somethimes some stories might be 100% truth, while this case not so important.... like those stories nonetheless, and always remember as i also repeat - few centuries changed a lot in understanding of true origins of many rituals, words, even whole nations :lol lovely as many, imagine knights waving it to someone and it makes some impression ; ....for other things mantioned, really self-explainable all, and no some anecdotes.... talked "sacra privata" talked dancing talked very much else.... i always say, for those doubtful, while there are speculations, zero fantasy and Italians/Romans/Venetians/etc are no idiots and we were deeply in Roman affairs and ties... give something yours
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Re: my pub themes and similar

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one thing, not bad to repeat now as i often don't say it concretely guessing that many know, that avoided both most fans but also many historians on subject and why it had that "weight" not just Murus or this or that - today is known, but it was also known for few knowledgeable and Romans above all that Serbia is whole Rome empire considered (but in less classical sense) country with most Roman emperors births after Italy... that's one dimension, other important for era of course is that in year 1200 (for example and before during Barba-Nemanja meeting etc) same country was birthplace of both Constantine and Licinus... no need for further explain and why skilful play by our dynasty of origin from one of them etc. and why even respect from Germans ("Romans") French and all.... so important moment for fans and always should be minded, today most of us people ask which Licinius and Constantine but then it was "wow!" and (for example) it surely impressed Barbarella etc etc.

something modern, watched for minute French and other TVs - mainly watch it really shortly, while not knowing language but it is a bit ekavian more than others ) so watch it because it is my horny rose and just for pictures and to try to guess are female presenters of Norman, Frank or Occitan origin, or third :lol etc. And hoping to see Macron finally go out and makes annoucement to nation and world: "Blanche of Louis WAS queen of Serbia!" :) ...but watch others as well, mostly by time amount pricipessa talks - so seen some "fresh" report from "repertoirs sans frontieres" :) (aka open legs and arms reporters) and I'm proud that we are redest-badest state on continent, except few not completely continental etc. You have to always "jump out" by something in any time so we are managing always :) ...not so important and it is just "AFP" falschists but what made me smile is that USA is "situation problematique" and "good situation" is only on Greenland, North and south pole :) without much population at all... and Scandinavians.... philosophically always wonder how come, as we really inheritated a lot from Italians or Greeks, have that "southern feel" with cosa nostra, riposta vostra - so how some close to Vikings did not follow same pattern of Scandinavian way of life i.e. way of rule, govt transparency etc etc. ;) ....all for pub fun and life, while my love is medievalism and always join with something there, we are all history lovers here more or less....
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Re: my pub themes and similar

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thought a lot about Blanche, really is it some hidden message by telling that she was "most photographed woman of our middle ages" (although many places related to her are ruined as said)... i mean why would it be if just some relative of Baldwin or Stefan Anjou, not even his daughter? Simply not enough for such fame if you ask me or reasonably said, but if she was from Frankish crown it would confirm such rating etc ; ...btw, even if we accept Blanche as chance and we even accept dates about her as "pedantistic" in France and we don't accept our as even closely true (as was case, we don't know even birth of HIM and it ranges by 6 years etc) in time of birth of Miluten she could still be even 18 or 19, or 16 at worst.... SU I "the rugged" (again we know only some circa date of his birth) could be even below 30 - considering all not so shameful or disturbing ;) so could be even in that sense, while i agree 110% that Dragutin was obviously just half-brother by Rugged one and maybe just some lover (he was very young obviously) or maybe some Hungarian or rival to Dandolo Venetian or Italian woman, to speculate - but generally no need, but for story just to "put him in trouble" as having extra-marriage affair..... so that is what i accepted and really glad that French historian agrees it was possible, he looked at dates, practices of Capets and even structures etc. Even if it wasn't Blanche herself, just other maybe even older (also maybe outside marriage)) daughter of Loius....... French BTW have practice - and precedents are important - to "hide" things related to "us", not only 1204 :) but generally closer to modernity as i gave example of "hidden" fact that misje Barthou was killed by French cop (not only bullet but also few strikes with sword as he was closest to our king.... just joking)) but also Napoleon who hid letters, debts ) and of course that our king Pierre, ex-French commando was sent here to dethrone "too Germanic" line and puch Austria, old foe :) etc..... already wrote impression to French (esp. Frankish as Blanche was of them) women of middle ages so no repeat - true heroines as they lived beside such known sex-maniacs as Frenchmen :) and also as same Frenchmen died almost wherever they fought in thousands, but they supplied new Frenchmen endlessly :) ...lovely, like that theory very much and fits in many way :yes

something else wanted to say.... there are matrixes in facts about foreign figures related to us so mentioned vampirism and life after death by some (Michael and Raniero Dandolo among more) but also lovely how Ludwig Bavarian had few "dead daughters" but would be too much to think that "Helen" of HIM was in fact some Bavarian princess :) ... just joking here, even ages of Ludwig's daughters do not remotely fit for marriage with HIM but noticed as fact. so he sent Elisabeth of his co-ruler, who was killed somewhere i don't understand where exactly but she was killed and story of her words (even changed) "stinks" to say mildly..... only thing i guess as possible that he actually seen Dushan and then died, and in that case could accept fear as he was really impressive figure and she maybe 150 cm ; but generally story stinks... always is question, to say for maybe US readers as guess E-lovers know - of interests to ruin or change sources in the west about us in the west, while east and Phanariots etc. quite obvious... simply, as state fell out of memory almost evryone around had some interest to change it, Austria new power as well, Hungary to extent etc (but they all aslo kept some facts)....only Brits (hope you had few good dinners with our silver plates) and Italians knew some facts and our role, but anyway shouldn't be going to other extreme - facts were different, changed or masked and our say in events as well, but not most important of all etc etc. some balance... they were all disappointed as we - so important and great! - didn't listen to papas and mamas, or (from Greek side) betrayed Romea and already changed it during times etc etc others jumped in.... but i say it is lovely, and allowed for great hobby or speculations :) and for historians great room to improve their detective skills, esp. on questions of 3-4 figures

nonetheless, serious about Blanche as theory (or other unknown one) and hope i wrote nice, emotional letter to French women :) ....glad we made one monumental, even naked around, but too small for my ideas ).... dedicated this to her mostly and Frenchwomen generally, but went wider as always.... somehow feeling is that French knights weren't such heroes and "best cavalry" around and always died evrywhere but them.....only now i understand that myth of "Joan" :lol or Jeanne and it almost sounds like "woman" in our language....but that is myth as well, they mostly stayed home and waited letters about dead husbands :) and then new French arrived etc.... to say as my last words, even papa-Jacques if we take aggressiveness and dead bodies count wasn't so bad, but i'm with doctor Eco and Italians on this :) ...worst ever and huge apetite for docs :)

Blanche, Anna (the queen) and Jaquinta - great movies esp. if we add fame, secrecy or similar around :yes ... and Elena Gattilusuio, she was such "despotina" :) ...always remember - when Konstantin wrote his work, Stefan was dead and nothing approved by him ;) ...ooor, black George what have you done :) (maybe they even had kids but George "erased" them all.....) ....that much, share some hobby
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Re: my pub themes and similar

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what should we talk today, my dears....

just shortly as is funny.... concepts so "batrayal" (guess by minority) as for example our stand with Byzant empire - biggest foe for centuries :) ...or by some, "betrayal" of Bulgaria, biggest foes for centuries :) and so on, in modern times people also like to use it, having some concepts in their heads and like some "betrayals" if for example England one day take different stand to US, or someone to death and destruction :) etc... so it is funny concept when it comes to countries, can be only personal, for example if we take epic story (but not truth) of Vukashin ending Nemanide line, and possibly Dushan made him powerful or anything etc. Those are betrayals, between countries no, makes it even more funny in given examples of us and Byzant or Bulgaria with 1000 wars before some moment ) ....so i said it more poetically in case of Greeks i.e. Byzant, really don't know what is reason as acting by us and Venice was expected ) and maybe later "Imperial city" (say that it was also old name, informal, by our noblity for much longer exactly to not mention Constantine, usurper)) clergy wasn't because of "betrayal" concept in their head, just oportunistic moment to change and erase some knowledge so Ecumenical patriarch could dominate all etc etc... more poetic by me, question is for Greeks why they didn't protect more Nemanide sites etc... but today they are sisters

but France is philosophically much more interesting case and how it managed to stabilize and keep name from "isle" through ages.... and of course our relations, almost romantic at moments when they "with steam from their noses" see Anglo-Saxons on Constant walls, that previously beaten us :) ...and they storm them instantly ) ...and then they both, Venice and Capets give us queens :) .... but somehow our silver plates do finish in England :) in their tunics to satirize as some Italian comic-books :) ....somehow i don't see any "religious cause" or hate in event, to me more "French noble cause to defend us" and crown :) as targets were exactly "usurper Emeric" and Byzant.... people always say Venice but Venetian marines behaved more passive and Enrico was 150, both at Zara and Constant French knights (even after hearing Inokent sanctions) advanced etc... so, as some called other crusades as religious wars and "defenses of Sepultura", fourth could be called "defense of just spread Serbia" ;) and most noble of all :lol lovely, while we know more or less, this more for international readers

it is nice when you connect some dots in that line - Honorius and us, but he also turns the blind eye to French "expansion", we grateful to French for previous "defense" they grateful to us "defend us" for revious expansion promise firstborn daughter and so on, rest is history... same is as i said with German emperors which sometimes did the same due to our Roman ties etc.... but Stefan, king of Albania :) maybe disliked whole deal so some tensions and further popes favorising him and overtake of Hungarian throne etc. and wanting to confirm that "Franks are first violina", so he changes name from Stefan characteristic to our rulers to Charles, quite clear :) so we found ourselves in position to turn to Germans again.... lovely subjects, almost romantic - today we are distant memever of Frankokratia but less stable unlike Albania where 0.02 of population share values and language with Franks..... think about it all and write me your impresions and what you get out of it, if maybe hear story for first time
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Re: my pub themes and similar

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photo from Wiki (Eng) article "sack of Constant", mosaic from one (it's Italy, birthplace of man who made our "horse" statue etc) church in Ravenna.... noticed instantly, hence guessing that 821 years later historians still have own dilemmas and interpret it wrongly, below picture text goes "siege of Constant? Cutting off hands?" ;)

NO, it was not "cutting off hands" by anyone and as i see responsible people have no idea ) i'll help... people in the left are obviously Byzantines, you can tell that by their "party" hats... man on the right is obviously Frank, can tell that by his armor. So he is not any "cutting off hands" and it is shameful that Wiki even ask such question :) nor crusaders, Vinegians and French did such barbaric acts.... it depicts, to help historians, obvious Byzantine prisoners taken by Franks and destined to Bari and Serbia, to be used as "sklaves" in second and sold to some caliphate infirst case :) ....while i joke, serious about this mosaic and all, simply crusaders weren't such barbaric and their ties with us, prove that so it is idiotic to think photo is about that ;

something else for lovers to share.... maybe you remember that i "investigated" long, long ago that whole "Marica battle", Vukashin death and all.... found that some area north-east of Hadrianople/Edirne bared name of "Srpsindigi" (Serb dectruction) for long etc... sowhole story is question... through some talks you know what is interesting - some Greeks claim that city wasn't still in Turk possession in 1371, true or not i don't know... BUT, more interesting, through speculations, some guess that Vukashin was going more east not to city, further they say that there wasn't any battle at all, if we take some suspected site "of battle" in today Greece and not area i mentioned... so they speculate that Marica just flooded Vukashin army campduring night, it was some rainy time and similar and there was no Turks present at all, Vukashin survived but nonetheless lost big part of army, but was killed in return etc... interesting to say, could be even possible as great number of knights can't really "panic" for long, but if river flooded they can and would be disaster

other thing to mention is that some suspect, as he was remembered as hero in epic songs/poems, and it makes logically correct idea, that "prince" Marko (Vukashin's son) did not die in any battle in Romania as Turk vassal etc... he, like many Serbs lords (even during Kosano battle some Serb lords had to allow Osmans pass, BUT they did not take part in battle against Lazar and Vuk... and half of Europe)) after few battles could have same "deals" with sultans not to take part in any battles in Europe, just support eventually Turks in Asia etc.... simply, folk epic tradition would not take him as some epic hero if was the case... often Byzantine, Bulgarian etc. sources masked some things and we all bought it :) ...not so important but could be true.... personally even doubt that some "George's miners" took part in siege of Constant 1453 etc, simply eastern fairytales or malitious change by lovely sources around us :) (Barbara bite it etc)) written later and if so country would not fall 5-6 years later etc... while not known, just to warn true lovers that many things we know about time from some 1370s till 1450s could be some fairytales and not correct at all ;... reconstructing it all, really from 8th century is tough job but manageable even roughly, who likes, hope i added ) we among greatest "victims", but not important..... :)

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Re: my pub themes and similar

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History is - nice finish :) - not a "list of wishes" (if you try to "make-up" it) nor some set of personal wishes, if you are telling how things happened ;... Historians are slaves of sorces and their interpretation and they must use them, or it might be "totally unbased" and then fantasy - just problem is that sources might be total fantasy and then we get fantasy, not real picture... and why sometimes those who speculate are more right than historians etc etc. not need to waste words as things are pretty clear, but using other methods as logic and similar are worth... I say again it is not "list of wishes" it is neutral or fair representation while i used a lot of humor.... instant remeber, you know when i joked about Bari - which Dushan gifted in more than one way - being "Teutonic center" and why interesting for him, well it is not a joke at all, it is true as he drafted a lot from them, under Ludwig's and Colonna blessing, they were all "more or less" patrons or mecenas of it :) and so on... while saying as fact, nobody says who was more right in far away times, while i mildly stink as leaning towards some side :lol but just representing some facts... reason why in (totally unimportant and BTW) why some (for example) Polish artists and similar (as opposed to others who liked us) were more "pro-somone else" in some later centuries is often bacause Serbs, due to history, were seen as one "pro ghibelline or pro German nation/tribe once"... and why even when Russian empresses and Austrian made maps of divide "Serbia belongs to west/others" was often concept etc etc etc. not important

so that 1204 is very interesting, albeit not for previous reasons as that nations were not involved then.... but for other reasons and I say priests, even high ranking ones, are not historians not politicians ; and have their world views or similar, sometimes biased and contrar to some civil sector etc... but really shortly, many things predated infamous "sack" nor it was even first try to take it... cute Vinegia was longer at odds with it and they tried before Enrico to attack it with fleet, but it failed and later one doge was killed by some rioters.... only one aspect, our wars with Byzant of course other and why "cuties defended us" :) and so on, so generally much deeper and longer issue, while event itself is also based on economical factors to extent etc.... but to me funny how it unfolded and our ties, which didn't give us some protection from western powers because "they were just haters" but liked us, for example :) (except Stefan Anjou of Albania, reluctantly and as last turned to SU "rugged")) lovely histories if you go into details...
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Re: my pub themes and similar

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...and to repeat or say clearly - why we speculate or rather "see clearly" something about "Helen"... not because of Frankokratia or our ties or this - it is (quasi) important for continental history of time, plus people like it you know Templars, papal "skalp" pardon slap etc etc. why i mention Stefan/Charles so much in relation to us etc. And, finaly and most importantly, why Philip IV could theoretically be important for our events and why at all he was different/enigmatic as well as Miluten i.e. his mother for us.....

so again and short and why i (others) and French (maybe many French indeed) see "who was Helen".... as exactly Philip IV could also be direct tie with Miluten and he was different than his relative Charles in many ways, wanted to "finish some things" contrary to Charles ideas that dragging Sicilian (and Albania don't forget beating French took from Greeks there)), he was to extent continuation of Louis IX, in sense that he was someone "close yet different than Charles"... that's where we and "Helen" fit and it is about that if you understand and relatively know continental history of the times.... both Philip IV and Miluten are some line, not so different but yet different than Charles and miluten possibly contacts very much with our king, Philip takes the throne relatively soon after our king - they both represent "Louis IX counterbalance to Charles" (who dies around) etc. Maybe hard for me to explain, but hope i was able to lovers why is "enigma Helen" so interesting and why it fits.... so those are some "tied relatives" - Louis IX is grandad to both our and French king, and Philip "dictates" to Miluten "take a little of this, little Albania, arrest Michael VIII, finish it off, take some Byzant princess (but not one Miluten wanted)) and lets move to other things like templars, you sending me money :) and we take Jerusalem together to satisfy them all" ) etc. caricaturally but truely said etc. Really hope everyone understand this and where are basis of theories..... but funniest is that detail that "we" had to turn against pope that sainthooded their grandad :lol but he went wild as well as Sarra etc.

best i can offer as stories from our history who likes and again, i'm not sure i explained well, but hope i did - Philip IV and Miluten possibly or very really, felt obliged to repeat here without ususal jokes people to understand and as did not explain well whats behind Charles frequent mentions etc... other things i couldn't talk are less fun and maybe from newer history, but this is super and simply looks more truth than what we know... we and French are "old G(a)ulash" :) and while i say that "ghibelline" side was mainly our card of those eventful 100 years for us and continent (so since Rugged took throne till death of Dushan) and Miluten was to some extent central figure in many ways, as is Philip relatively - if they had same relationship with Louis IX, again super story and fit and why things went as they did.... but as i said most likely some tie between us and Franks could be traced to first Bulgar empire.... so ghibelline stand at peak but likely Capet (again i repeat ot was less valued female line and secret to all except maybe Capet family so nobody wrote about it and if did, Jacques would eat it)) moment was very important for state of times, maybe central.... and again i repeat why i repeat, but maybe did not explain well... nor again :)
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Re: my pub themes and similar

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yeah, another small and cute detail for our and French history lovers (beside adding that Miluten also "copied Louis", what Philip did as well, in some Mongol policy etc among other things mentioned similar)..... one whole unit (Turkopiles etc. but totally unimportant as various peoples of ethnicity were used in the east, it is more interesting how many French and Italians our king had) comes to Miluten as sevice offer, relatively close after they took part in battle against French (and their glorious deaths) in Thessaly on Aragonese or more precize "Catalan company" side, before they took Athens duchy etc..... But, sympthomatic :) very soon after (Greeks added to it to make Miluten "bad guy" in source probably) our king "kills whole unit" after they realized who is he, or he who are they etc.... as said just cute detail, not crucial but worth knowing that even in there is small "fit" in some pro-French sentiment, for example said.... Miluten, nor Philip wanted, did not go to Thesally but "punched" some he could for French defeat.... but his grandson reached it and attacked Aragonese again etc

lovely details, very probable and strong arguments etc. it is important to compare our events with some wider policies and you get some idea.... they say, again for theme - that Gabriele (further knowing more as he beside being Italian also lived in France) intentionally repeated "Colonna, Colonna" in poem to us, just because as they were known as "old ghibellines" but also "Serb related family" in delicate moment of newer history :) like "what you say now Colonnas?" :) and so on... all lovely, hope it widened your knowledge, but awaiting something from you and what you like, maybe less known to us all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtJO8zs1P8Y ....maybe already shared it here if yes pardon, total fantasy but like drammatic level of short "trailer" :yes French kings although known as great lovers, surely did not like when whole knightly ordr slept with their wives :)
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Re: my pub themes and similar

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Philip IV was also - you know that joke but truth - unique and different as he was first king in a line of at least 3 French kings (maybe even 4 as Philip II "Augustanus" illnes wasn't specifically recorded) who did not die of dysentery/diarrhea, all 3 before him in some crusade :) ...so why he avoided idea of going to one or didn't prepare enough supplies of toilet paper yet, lovely. Instead he was killed by a wild boar during hunt, according to some rumors and Dante ;)

btw to say also, our rulers from dynasty had ill-fortune in sense of constant "fluctuations" in other powers they tried to tie with, including France... so Miluten and Philip and their "love story" ends exactly in year of death of Philip, no coincidence - in same year Clement also dies and Miluten is instantly under attack by his older-half brother, probably initiated by pro-papal and Hungarian-Anjou lines but he, unlike "Philip line or policy" pushes them back and even entered Belgrade etc.... but not only here, same factions maybe initiate "forced marriage" of Philip IV oldest son to one of Angevine Hungarian princess etc. (some mild inbreeding indeed) despite he having wife from before, which died in prison.... so there was some clear struggle in France, which also fits to some mentioned interprets, just to say... but generally my notion was that our rulers had that "bad luck" with allies as their policies fluctuated or changed, really from Venice to France and Germany - so only constant during whole Nemanjic line is Colonna family and why so strong tie ; ...even last two non-dynasty despots continued tie with them, so we kept clear and stable policy... really is interesting from our side what exactly happened with "Dechanski" and his son, as SU III D in his story combines elements of both Enrico and Louis so quasi blindness and huge piety, often prayers etc etc.... maybe Dushan had enough of both "fluctuating" Venetians and French and their changes of course and said "Germans again!" ) (Andrea takes second most important position inVenice same year, so sooooo many years are in cute "coincidences") But, and repeat, to really understand it - it is more likely that Colonnas and Roman events, new papacy influenced by many Orsini as enemy, made decision for us than to look into some reasons between our son and father, for Ludwig policy shift in concrete... it was strong decision to make new/renewed alliance with German emperors and that "French crown couldn't be trusted nor is stable enough" and that papacy dictates changes there again, "Angevine" and "Louis" factions are in struggle (which beside other things led to end of direct Capet line)

but again i say Philip IV is something else in concrete time (while we also cooped nice with Louis VIII and rest) and should be singled out, probably more closer to our rulers than Hungarian of the time, as explained but "putch" came fastly after his death etc.... something happened in France with that Stefan ) and Louis rift or "separation" and is really interesting for detectives, maybe i really "by gut" explained it right as "Stefan's clear unsatisfaction with Capet marriage to us and half-Dandolo" (among other things) despite our connections helping France to previously expand during Louis VIII etc. and leaving papacy outside of our deals etc etc. Again i hope this is understood by lovers, while i have no problems to explain it further and compare things and dates (like that 1314 here) just for you to get clearer picture if like... i mean i'm also investigating it independently so no trouble with some posts, just sometimes :) and running out of subjects..... but nobody can say that this isn't lovely historical story and we in some epicentre helping even France to expand via Honorius, helping Philip, helping Ludwig to crowns via Sarra etc etc. and two French royal brothers and their factions fight because of us :) ...as probably said, 3 families (while French only in "direct" form) all disappear in space of some 3 decades as rulers and space is opened for humanism in Italy Europe and around the world :lol .... few decades after our annex, wars for Italy start, because everyone knew that after our fall principessa lost its strongest ally and is easy target, alas..... even Colonnas are forced into some deal in Rome as they lost strongest ally as well :) ....now your turn to say something ))
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Re: my pub themes and similar

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Geanakoplos, while admitting that Michael was in contact with the leaders of the revolt beforehand, asserts "that Michael Palaeologus, on his part, had nothing to do with the incident at the church of Santo Spirito is beyond question."
:lol

laughing unimportantly, are kir Geanakoplos (American historian btw, of course of Greek origin) trying to say that Michael had nothing to do with "French soldiers touching breasts of Sicilian woman" ;) ....always surpised by some historians but best is line of "Michael autobiography writen years later" while man died few months after Sicily events, doubt he eveb had time to write own testament, let alone such eventful "memoirs" including retake of Constant all events, Lyon, all diplomacy and of course Sicily,Crete etc :) ...so while i singled Geanakoplos line more for humor, real amazement comes from mister Runciman, Anglo-Saxon i.e. English author (so they quasi have some level) and how they did not see some obvious things or bought some dubious..... so i and some Greeks objectively suspect that Michael VIII lived longer than stated and that Miluten's "precise strike" without intention to conquer to Kavala was exactly to finally surround and defeat Michael, but alas where is source etc... Kavala is since Augustanus and nearby battle that defeated Casius (later Ali)) and Brutus (from Servilia gens, adopted) place where you gather forces or use it as base, Greeks know - what would be other startegic gain for Miluten to go there and not, for example but again we can only speculate, but hope it is fun and interesting. Our figures and events suffered from "yummy docs" sindrome on both east and west :) But maybe is funnier this way - Michael as well Raniero Dandolo were just vampires, lived years after death etc. What is speculated, while i said for Michael, to repeat for Raniero, Annas father, is that he might be main power behind 1204 (from less important Venetian side) but in some quasi source he died early, mot even knowing where and to whom Anna goes, while most likely he was there and lived almost to Rugged taking throne etc. Anna directly sent by him, as gratitude while he never took the doge position etc.

generally you get, if you combine my few last posts, why Miluten was "so liked" by both westerners (Philip, Colonnas, many Italians and French etc etc) and also by many Greeks, even Bulgars, "holy king" name etc. As he maybe dealt with Michael, disliked by both in many ways - while he did not act in defense of any of them :) and maybe just listened to Philip )...lovely subject however you approach it and with reason one of favs - doubtful that we will ever have truth about all 150 years, but at least we got a lot of fun and laugh with quasi interpretations.... to say also for end if wasn't clear from my last post - most likely Philip IV had nothing to do with that "Nestle affair" :) and he died very soon after it, already pushed by some, maybe also under suspicious circumstances and he did not order any brutality nor imprisonment of his daughter-in-law etc etc. He would also most likely never agree with further marriages of his sons to Anjou-Hungarian princesses (even English had some role in all etc. but don't blame English) as seen... so in a way, Philip indeed in finale maybe victim of some plot, but pro-Nemanide king and deserves statue here :p

for humor, Pricipessa-TV whole day about papas and elections, but when i ask simple quest of fav papa, no principessa answers me.... :)
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Re: my pub themes and similar

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I'm guessing, considering all "controversies", that maybe whole facts about Angevine-Stefanide ) and Byzantine clashes in Albania are maybe later surfaced or something and are now known to us, but maybe not to earlier historians Wiki often quote unfortunately ;... so don't see what's problem or controversy at all as their mutual war and banging started before Sicilian Vespers and all, so in 1281 :) ...so talking today about did Michael had interest to see "French die" anywhere is a bit outdated or irrelevant if you get it...

something else but related and again to add to whole theme from our side and why i now lean towards Philip as "our guy" in complicated French royal relations ;.... there is also of course even "third guy" from there Miluten contacted and did some "only for your ears" pacts ) (not so much as it is known, for restoration of Ruma))... so it was Philip's brother also Charles (hope he wasn't born Stefan as well)) of Valois, whose line later continued "Valois" line of French kings etc, but as seen they are all not sodifferent and pretty much all inbred :) ...jokes aside :p what makes me prone that despite all, Miluten still wasn't so close with him, maybe even Philip, is that actually Clement and Philip IV acted more in Miluten's interest. Namely Charles Valois also made deals with Venice, concretely doge Gradenigo (Pietro) and he is known for probably making "anti-Miluten" laws probably aimed at stopping our finance of French and papal forces etc. However, soon later Clement turns against Venice, interdicts and excommunicate whole republic or city - which was in Milutens interest and so on and as i say is cute moment when "trio fantasticus" started to fight among themselves ) ....besides, Charles was still teen (Philip not much older) when Miluten started actions, so guess it was Stefan of Albania after all as first contact, but very soon - how i see - Miluten and "Helen" turned to real French king, Philip.... interpretation, as said i base it on moment that Charles Valois dealt with Gradenigo whome Miluten was in clash with, whose wife was Morosini like one woman they tried to tie with "anti-Miluten" factions in Rascia.... to me Philip IV, both our kings temporarily devaluated silver dinars etc, and it was Charles V. who needed Venice more, unlike Miluten and Philip.... as said lovely and one must mind delicate differences and clashes inside French royal family to maybe find "true connection"... both Miluten and Philip were maybe in some later stage reluctant to go into "Byzant crusade" unlike older and younger Charles and rest, more for precise actions and "looked to Jerusalem", at least to satisfy others - which is similar to Louis IX versus Stefan )

lovely, hope i'm adding to it but right now i finished ).... what you say my Joan?
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Re: my pub themes and similar

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really don't know is there country (almost to say in the world but really don't know much about all) which history was more full of implants, twist, lies and similar not to use harsher words than this one.... really when you got into small details you get some real picture and 90% of various writings are just pure garbage, esp. by various priests :) sorry to say, my fav as outsider (i mean i'm outsider from church)) was Pizzaball :) ...but for history not just of one side i.e. "Neo-Rome" that struggled with us "ancient Romans" but also various Bulgarian, Greek and our priests etc.

so true details give some lovely story, much less hateful or biased,as i pointed in many examples.... really (in our case) it is something that started with various factions and for whole continuity of ours state it was about factions not any about religious i.e. sectarian divide, even less so much national.... so you really have to know little details. France and Germany are good examples, so since i mentioned it was never "we are with Frecnh, Germans... or Greeks" it was always about factions, some tried to wrongly present as sectarian differences or national in time... as well as we are best example of fake history through sources, we are also bast example (but not unique) of things from previous sentences, relating other nations - surprisingly med Rascia was less "factional" or just mildly compared to others... so again we had friends and enemies in France, "German turns" were based on factions, so maybe in moment our rulers and elite supported anti-Luxembourg factions for Bavarian etc. (during Miluten and HIM) As was case of old Staufens, our pals versus others etc. wasn't about nations at all.... and we always managed to float (and you know what floats on water)) so even when Sigi the Burg took power he was "pro-Serb" and instead chopping off our heads (for being anti-Lux before etc) he shopped Croat, Hungarian etc. and awarded us :lol really lovely, i give all credits to Colonna (and ancient Rome factions in Italy) for those our "successes" :yes but our rulers also deserve a lot etc.

really went through various things and so many sources are pure garbage, true history something else.... believe i'm right when i say that something ancient in question (believe i joked and told truth that Ras gained UNESCO protection before old Rome)) some passions went wild (but probably were before) in X c especially and when i say that "fall of Tusculum" (and Ras before)) was maybe more important than Constant for creation of our kingdom etc etc. Papacy and Romans had own factions (really?) and cute is also detail that previous popes, probably in all clashes aimed at some "ancient things" also close Bar or Antivari archbishopic or archdiocese (probably old pornokratia)) BUT in last year of Nemanja life it was reinstalled (as catholic one of course) with blessing of Inokent III, so again some factions... bishops of it btw hold "ancient" title "Primates of Serbia" more titular and old than real and nothing about monkeys :)

lovely subjects, really wanted to summ again some things for new principessas and readers and how "raped" our history was.... France, Romans, Germany etc. always factions and when some quasi sources say "Miluten or HIM persecuted Latins or katoliks" of course it is lie for minor example, it was always about factions and we cooped nice with other of same breed/kind etc etc.... or some possibly Hungarian priest who wrote some "chronicles" about region to Charles Cunt of Valois, expressing how "best allies are Hungary" (or Albania)) but actually Charles and Clement talked to Miluten :) ...and so on, many details, if true lover worth knowing what whole med history was about and always look at details and forget narratives.... so i traced flow of Milten's money not through any writings but movement of "Venetian agents" in Florence, Bologna etc. for example... that's how you learn history of middle ages, so hopefully helpful but really if you like, join me in some details or stories you like ;
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or, to correct myself, "Primates of Servia" even in latin script, usually it means nothing and is minor continentally but as latin mostly uses B instead and in this case important, if you followed my other posts ; Btw, looked at it, while archdioceses (or exarchates in other form, eastern) were not so important nor unusual of course, nor rare it is interesting that "our" was elevated relatively early even in continetal terms and "primates" are rare in sense that they usually included some larger area or more isolated or historical in some sense etc so there was "primate of Gauls" "primates of Hispania" but also "Primates of Servia".... what i'm trying to say is that name "Primates of Servia" just confirmed some importance (along the crown, subject which i talked) of it among all etc. which is lovely, where some maybe see hate i see great respect.... i think today it is not even used, but it was used during middle ages and our kings nor elites didn't mind much ; had no idea but wiki says to me that last 25+ years it is occupied by Albanian priests, since we live in free speech times ) maybe a bit in bad taste by Vatikanus considering its history and that Serb ruler restored it (and almost Rome as whole)), but doesn't matter and kings of Albania were "great pals" of our, as French :) could be also some Italian or any other priest, but again not important and maybe way to turn us from our traditional Mars to Uranus etc.... also most likely today, instead of "primates" titles today for us all usual term is "banana" :lol (but also for Galia, France, Spain et all... wider)

seriously to add also this, map of "first" (not that it is 100% consensus since Dicletianus is in question our old rival)) "dioceses" in Roman empire, not to be mixed with provinces, later religious use or other administrative divisions and doubt that (if map is true representation) it was by Diocletianus at all, maybe just dating to his times etc. etc. But it is one big Mesia :yes ...why i also post is strange similarity to borders of Dushanus empire, instantly noticeable (minus southern Greece and Albania which he did not conquer). also lovely as many subjects we had..... and so on, gave many facts for true lovers and many subjects for talks on history lovers and gaming forum full of life, hope you join once as i'm more than finished.... ) ....main goal was of course to advocate and legit right to annex Italy by us, so be warned principessa.....

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you know also what is interesting interpretation (thanks to French for some details) beside my mentioned that "via Honorius we helped French and in return they promised firstborn daughter etc etc".... Honorius was indeed unusual and maybe of other faction as proposed and only Polish artist knows why he sculptured two around him but not him :) while both "Contis" and papacy of the time were very influenced by Orsini family so many popes in line strengthened their possesions, even made some Orsini members as "senators" etc etc. And they all were more less (even Honorius probably) against Friedrich II and generally Hohenstaufens.... but we and Colonnas pro, to say so based on some shock after Barba death (and he promised wives)) and soon fall of Tusculum etc etc

so to point, interpretation might be that instead of gratitude for previous help via Honorius etc. actually French royals, Louis IX and Stefan spelled as Charles etc. preparing in advance their intervention and "replacement of Staufens" in Italy actually tried to as first step send some princess to us, breaking maybe some Staufen or ghibelline sentiment with French royal princess BUT (by interprent important) to also "soften Colonnas" via our influnce and tie... so first step was princess to us, then advance on Italy, Sicily etc.... it also makes sense for some secrecy both there and here as maybe our noblity and SU I had some more ghibelline-stands (and he was first to invite Germans here etc etc beside other things)... but from French royal side it was just prepartionary step or softening aimed at Colonnas and whole faction maybe taking more neutral stand to future French action in south Italy etc. Makes sense as well as first one, but speculatively speaking if we accept that our queen was Capet... indeed, indeed as later events showed Colonnas did take some neutral to pro-French stand in later events around Stefan's ) death and second half of century, while Orsini found themselves "under attack" by Frenchists (literar)) ...also lovely, we discussed it all, could be that we were just seen as Colonna or "old Rome"/ghibelline point to approach first before taking action....... other stronger factions tried it later, not to repeat unfortunate Elisabeth episode, where now Bavarians (and Habs) tried to tie with our royals etc.

hope this theory is also understood by lovers, personally like it as any but sadly "enigma Helen" will remain ; (unless Macron centers his powers on real questions))... humor again to French.... didn't repeat this joke in this thread, which is my final, most correct and best, so to add.... as Capets obviously changed their names and alliances so Stefan changed it to Charles our king HIM decided to repay them equally - namely, it is believed that title king or "kralj" is just some distortion of name Charles of our and italian Karlo, so our king changed his title from Charles to Kesar :) ("car" is also distortion of Iulius nick) obviously why and it hurts :) .......all lovely, love Blanche/Helen and only hope that Miluten's birth date is not true in some sources :p but might be some other pricess from Capets - maybe also French kings first wife, and also his siter in same time and mother of Charles as well ..... :lol

again if you have any love for themes - see Wiki says that German societies erected almost 40 Staufer obelisks across Europe in last 25 years ) so it is popular - always join me on any subject i touched and how you see some ideas and where i might be close to truth, it's just hobby so don't be ashamed if not knowing much but you have some ideas on events... (Italians of course had their questions if can help)
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Re: my pub themes and similar

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Anna's sister Elisabeth and Simonida (a daughter of Anna's husband by his second wife) both married King Stefan Milutin of Serbia.
(it is about Anna of Hungary btw) .... really poor Miluten and poor Rascia of the time, as said maybe biggest victim of "international conspiracy" of intellectuals and people able to write ;) .... :) .....he was acussed of "kiddnaping" Elisabeth of Hungary, after other guy (Czech or half-German as all Czech, just joking)) also kiddnaped her from monastery and Wiki states also
The sources from Hungary don't know anything about her other marriage with Milutin, nor the chronicles, nor the charters.
so most about Miluten's life is sadly from Byzantine sources (as wiki states) and full of BS, some other script in latin however states that he had only two wives and so on if you get it... our misfortune is that we were under verbal and "sources" attack from two sides and result is known... so again poor Miluten above all, he was turned into "something" that today nobody knows who he was really, from love life to policy... even many of ours bought some fakes and turned maybe most intelligent and maybe even honorable man (except HIM) in any way into something else etc.... also like some Latin (unsigned and anonymous, but smells as Anjou-Hungarian)) script circa 1330s which says "Rascia is beautiful and rich but could be conquered by 1000 knights and 5-6000 infantry", lovely, while Greeks of round time say it had "80,000 soldiers", med novels were written in Italy about (before this) Italians going here to fight for our kings, graves found there etc. and so on... Dante is also with simple line more valuable "historical source" than whole 10000s of words chronicles... (and i really do believe that he punched Venice of his time, non-Dandolo one)

so in short again, reconstruction of medieval history is still task to be done, very important for some erections etc :) .... with Colonna tie hope i added a lot to it, almost 100% allignment with them through era, even Turk conquest comes in times when Colonna factions seem weak and sided and imperial "Roman" as well in some confusion etc.... problem is that only some sources survived, of other factions (and our in detail) did not (apetite of papa-Jacques!!)) and then some crippled picture is only visible.... to say that, beside Italy, Ragusa was also important for some details that survived, so i'm guessing that whole story about Palmanus and attempted Elisabeth marriage are from there etc. But Ragusa was anyway, after SU I also attacked it, more-less Venetian vassal during our Nemanjic state etc. so i also include it to "Italian sources" but valuable details....

poor Miluten indeed, wife abducter, child rapist, savage and without army, ate with his hands and died of diarhhea... :) glory to Sarra and Philip IV :yes ....really, if i didn't say before ) would like to have some view from Italy on all that from some lover of era history, but not expecting
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really, to say also this speculatively but not unbasedly as ever - to many enthusiast and maybe even historians (but they are slaves of sources) it indeed looks like more that with Angevin "movements" and alliances (esp. overtake of Hungary, which did not have border with Byzant and there was somone stronk! between)) so it really looked like they were "encircling Serbia" and not Byzant :lol ...lovely, it is not hate it is respect and our importance ;

that is why details are important and really really delicate moments among French themselves ; ...and again "importance" of our "Helen", because if it was really Capet whole world would say "dirty French, they even tried to dethrone king of their own" :) and why Philip IV fate is important for true lovers, but let's say that we absolved it, probably more "pro-us" among other controversial things ;..... to say right away i/we don't blame even Stefan :) that much as true circle around us started to be made once some Hungarian and post-Charles (let's call him Stefan for distinction from other Charlies)). So not Charles fault, though i like to joke with him.... he maybe knew that it was "Blanche" there so after all daughter of his "saint" brother and maybe did not plan it.... it started more with Charles II for whome Stefan himslef said (when he was captured once (really from head so pardon if i mixed with other son) "Who loses fool, looses nothing!" :)

lovely subject again and geographically it looks like it was around us ) esp. as in round time after Miluten also Byzant and Second Bulgar made pact and attacked us ;... must say not sure 100% about Boniface and his role, he did sainthood Louis IX and often had some "peace initiatives" but surely was guilty for salting Preneste or Palestrina etc. so we had to be with Sarra..... as said and again, as i'm never sure when i'll make pause - some fresher views from Italy would be precious for all, already got some but always want more, really is interesting moment and "what tie was hidden from us all" maybe...
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repeat but details and to be clear to people reading only here.... not sure if i put it this clear before

Philip IV - dies (to me) under suspicious circumstances, his sons all forced to "change wives", some killed, line disapears. all natural causes.... after SU IV HIM there is "weak" son quasi dies same year as one powerful noble for centuries suspected for his assassination. natural causes, line disapears.... Andrea Dandolo dies of course of natural causes ) and after him next doge is even decapitated really in doge throne room for some "plotting against system" etc ). Last Dandolo and all natural...... All three are IVs in some way, who likes symbolism but less important but also considered energetic, productive and with ideas - but what i really like is that all 3 IVs died around their 45 years + :) so super and almost like scrypt from fantasy film ;

idk about you, so also some question :) but i gained few fav international figures of the ages, even sainthood candidates :) so fav foreign figures (i have more) but Philip and Sarra Columna, but really have more as said.... hope it is lovely story even more with some shockingly symbolic things i sometimes present - and also would like to ask Italians would it be OK if we do some erections in your country.... of some Nemanides, hahaa. But really, think they deserve for many things, no sarcasm... always join and help with it all or present us something else
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"Cities and castles are now empty. There is not left one man to seven women, and everywhere there are widows to still-living husbands."
description of France in XII c (and onwards)) by st Bernard ; not to be mixed with dogs ) ...lovely while you don't have to be Einstein to figure it, looks similar to my image of it - BUT one big mistake from my post to French wives, writen in trance, as they obviously did not wait "letter about that husbands" as i put it, but already declared themselves widows before any letter and death :) lovely... how Germans did not use whole situation is strange, but Germany was arguably even in worse chaos and long "decline" (sounding like it was better before so i wrote it that way)) and fell behind many even during Salian emperors etc.

something else, relatively "important" for people reading only here.... you know how i said few times how "Rascia was maybe first country Capets tied with in this part i.e. east" etc. and to add what is behind.... first some (maybe idea by few but idea is interesting) that maybe Hungarian king never really married that already widowed daughter of Louis VII, and is based on dubious chronicles and enforced in XIX c, that's first... second as previous is unimportant generally and probably marriage could be true BUT more important is that it produced no kids nor any line... so that's what is behind claim that (speculatively and maybe never to be known again) Miluten was first half-Capet in region and why he was so under attack by both neighbours in sources etc. So i'm not negating Bela III possible Capet wife, just it produced no line in contrast to speculatively Rascian one which started with Miluten so that's behind :yes ....for other readers, after Bela comes Emeric and struggle for title "king of Serbia" begins and spectacularly daughter of maybe main figure of some events, Anna becomes queen etc etc.

as said which way you turn it and look at it, we were in huge disadvantage later due to ruined sources and changes later.... but still interesting moment and looking into all that as hobby and satisfaction and believe me is very complicated. Currently focusing again on all that little details and why for example Inokent III (and American "lawgiver")) so insisted Frederick II (French are not only, he was born Constantin))....(and was among first to popularize falconry on continent, discipline our elites used 400 years befire at least etc)) - to marry widow of said Emeric, why one of first acts of Honorius papacy was to give crown to us and so on, you get it :) ...incredible stories and Vinegia as we say "small but zaj...but lion" :) ....and again, really believe in what i said about Charles and Louis, relating us speculatively, but is much deeper and older and still no clear idea what made pope intervene - again maybe he felt more Roman than catholic :) - and give us title/crown in such interesting moment, how Friedrich fits, how Innocent and virtually every their move regarding region... who knows or sees something always welcome

lastly, interesting is if probably untrue that "latin scrypt" (from Louis of Hungary times, great pal)) which claims that Elisabeth of Hungary was only of 2 wives of Miluten, for minor detail (other was Byzantine teen and no kids).... while i say again probably untrue, it would make Dechanski and Dushan also descendants of two and related to previous Hun kings and more of other German lines they married etc. but not true and no idea what source aimed at, maybe Louis just preparing his first war against Dushan wanted to negate that our king was anything more than "descendant of Hun kings" etc, for example...
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little music to break the mood

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQtyO8dozDk

more than obvious where i stand :) and not some fan.... don't mean band ) but really lines like "false accusations" and mythomania present even there ;.... we absolved that subject and "who was who in the zoo", just to add that Templars were even physical danger for Miluten as having "strong presence" in Hungary and Croatia i.e. Hungary again ; and so on... beautiful, epic stories and i'm with "holy" and "iron" kings ) but like all mystery and laic idiotism, cute and adding :yes ....and our king probably took the Jerusalem - breaking through Turkopoliers :) which was title of one of templar officers ;) - with st Philip and our duke Grebostrek so what more you want, fanatics :)

for end, my fav photo of Honorius III, looks 100% our man :) ...really hope many things and symbolism and our older history is now closer or more understandable to you all.... btw, wonder will this country exist today without this guy as exactly 150 years "he enabled" defined later Serbian identity.... but irrelevant today in time of globalism and race for Uranus - but for history lovers it is possible that without him this country would be part Bulgaria, part Hungary and part Albania etc and any dynasty would not be formed. Great glorious stories, when you connect them continentally even better - we did in 150 years for what our old Romans needed whole 1300 years :) including wars with Gauls and Greeks and Huns :) super... so prepare your tomatoes if you think Honorius was wrong :) ....always join and tell us what you think, if i find some intereting post material of course i'll put ;) but nothing new now on things i mentioned in previous post, but generally you got some hint with what were factions and why we, after all, easily turned from Constantine Staufen to French etc :) all lovely, and i say embracing foreign figures who helped us and ornamenting our cities wih Honorius, Philip, Louis IX, Anna and Raniero (NOO! nor Raniero), Andrea etc. not to mention Licinius :) and earlier hisotry would only make this country more attractive and civilized, recognizable :) as actually we ruled once ;

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to say also here that lovely detail by French historians how Charles (bloody Stefan?) Valois was "very strongly" against things happened to Molai of satanists :)

what else to say things become "crystal clear" with small details... while Charles communicated with Miluten - and that's roughly when Miluten said "i'd do it but am afraid of mother and older brother" :lol (and he was 50+ old man) - obviously it was tense relation like he had with st Philip possibly and led to end of direct Capet line, safe to say how possibly Charles the C. was main figure in all that, so when you make videos and songs about all that mind all delicate moments, dear Vikings :) it's so easy to trick people into some "victims" of "iron" while true "steel" and conspirational plotting is often characteristics of other figures or sides etc... middle ages are perfect example (while i'm not much into other eras) of just that as i said few times - twisting things from one side to other and masking them... AND as siad it wasn't so much about religions (confirmed by pro-islamic posters in video i posted)) but not mean only that, also "unionists" vs. others (as Wiki falsely presents in Charles page considering Greeks) nor even that much about money, it was deeper and older and many Greeks that were "on our side" were often of Thessaloniki surrounding etc. and also role of females plays some role etc etc. much more complex issue and delicateses inthere....

minor detail and maybe it's just me but Charles Valois looks scary similar to Stefan Anjou, at least on photos :) and much less like st Philip and Louis ; ...long live Philip (and also wasn't much about Jews for those Jews among you my readers)) all in all, lovely subjects and would gladly see films about Grebostrek punching Templars all the way :) .... also to my Iberian readers, situation here was very different than one on Iberia so nothing about that as well ; ... always tell what you think or get out of it or some other spectacular subject )
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interesting is moment for lovers of subjects that - even considering this theme - that Dante put in same "place" and line in "comedy" exactly two total differences on question or opposite poles when it comes to Templars i.e. our king Miluten and Portugal king Denis I known as "agricola" to Italians (maybe he mentiones him in more lines but here as well) who guarded them.... however Dante mentiones only Miluten "doings" i.e. "fake dinars" of Vinegia maybe satirizing our relation or Venice alone, but in line nothing why he mentiones Denis (and also Norvegian i'd say just for rhyme with Vinegia)... so cute in that sense that total opposites on question of satanism :) are in same line.... many later interpreators, including Dante's sons, had no idea why he put Denis and Norway king, speculated even that Dante did not know much about them - but only Dante knows why he did it if we take Norway as solid rhyme only, Portugal was not... cute moment touching theme.

dealt with subject before, even posted longish about all once so who catched catched - but interesting is how Dante also in few lines (and he deals with him more) relates Philip with some "money things" :) but wasn't money alone and if it was, Templars were corrupt and opportunistic as well, plus demanded often transfer of members valuables etc etc.... BUT to be true medievalists there was also other things and you must be "really there" - to many European kings and nobility they did look back then as satanistic, conspiratory organisation, closed society with unclear point and probably "gayish" or sodomistic in many ways... plus, there was real threat as said of any such armed men having bases and going around there realms or feuds (or any other for that matter).... so from prospective of those times Philip and many monarchs "were right", trials aside and for some like our Miluten of course it was question of "what people organised to fight islamic forces doing around my country" as said etc...... finally Charles Valois, maybe plotting for long against own brother ) maybe hoped it is OK to have such armed force against French royal armies around just in case :) (and he managed in other ways, and "Nestle" is such huge cheat aimed at Philip) ...BUT to be fair, Capets collectively even Angevins were collectively at odds with Templars in France and Italy where they spread etc.... so can't point finger directly at Charles Valois for any ties or sympathy with Templars etc. but just cute detail... in any way Philip was one special figure and maybe Charles also slept with his wife, as well as pope :) ...mentioning pope again, if you followed all maybe you understand even in shadows or contures, not only that clash about church property and similar issues - but maybe also his displease about whole that "rival royal line" somwhere away and often in deals with popes so he said "beat this one" ) to speculate or theorise beside other things.... it was complex and multidimensional, but in core about female rights..... :lol ....and we know about that having before crusades one queen that "cucked our king" with "favorites", castrated and poisoned royalty unpenalised as it is we "gentlemenes" not like Philip ;) .... (also btw myth but cute one and probably Jaquinta wasn't like that at all)

not expert on religion but will say for end and goodbye - and urbi @ orbi that "spiritual christianity" is about non-violence, non-living in palaces, non-having armed guards, non-taking money from others for services and many more :) ...otherwise you are straight into Dante's Inferno and probably satanist ) ....and that Honorius rules :) as well as patriarch Joanikije (of HIM) who built a lot of places around middle east (for example) and then left it to others :) ....really hope many fans of themes catched valuable things from theories to facts :yes (who knows what really happened, historians the least))
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Wiki wrote:At daybreak on Friday, 13 October 1307, hundreds of Templars in France were simultaneously arrested by agents of Philip the Fair
This development conditioned the attitude of the Serbs, who under their king Stephen Uroš II Milutin established connections with Charles of Valois that culminated in the treaty of Lys on March 27, of 1308
:lol ..........of course i cut some lines from pages but is much funnier this way :yes and probablu close to truth, but we absolved that

anyway, for lovers to say, interesting is that question of our monastery in Jerusalem in times with relations with Byzantiens were not perfect at all, but even more than that later saint HIM and his Joanikije activity in today Israel i.e. then holy land.... both Joanikije and HIM were excommunicated and anathemised :) and so Ecumenical patriarch surely did not give permission :) and as quasi history claims that we did not capture Jerusalem and holy land ; interesting is question of actally gave permission to our activity and building in area.... some Greeks say maybe Jerusalem Greek patriarchate (sometimes not liking Constant one) or various Latin patriarchs of area, as is known that coop with francescans was good and similar.... cute subject, unrelated but Greeks say that our HIM and Michael VIII (we put to an end)) are only two emperors of this parts excommunicated by Constant patriarchy, btw story but we rule :) ...lovely and great subjects, my satanists
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so to for end translate also this, although quite obvious for anyone having at least some knowledge, except historians :) for many reasons is obvious that "latin heresy" line wasn't his and somone inserted it ;.... excommunication and anathema per se didn't hurt us and Dushan that much (unlike for example Venice when under it it had to burry even doge in unmarked grave and other had to wear dog collar etc)) as our church could continue services, normal life and ceremony (and burials of course) but it could possibly hurt others in empire loyal to Constant but not subject here... point is that by it as most senior priest in orthodoxy (of Byzantine rite esp) he sent message to all that saint HIM is "outcast" and who respected Constant papas ; gained warning and should behave accordingly... so if not in reality than atleast declaratively Dushan was in "war" with those huge areas etc etc.

so to point - after receiving such sanction he surely wasn't soooo mighty to put in Code lines about "latin heresy" :lol on top and to be in "war" with whole known world etc... also gave that smaller details of who only could give us permissions in holy land, sapienti sat ; (and it probably wasn't Greeks no matter how many liked us but would be "heresy" and shock if Jerusalem Greek patriarch gave permissions to excluded)) etc... plus HIM would most likely need to burn own imperial guard :) and attack Venice :) etc.... so when modern Albanian historian write that (ok using fake sources so nothing, she used "source" or some insertation) disregarding other facts and circumstances it is almost normal :) but disappointed by few even US historians bought it as true :) including omni-present John van Antwerp )...and so on, well discussed and almost funny now and great hope for future lovers and historians that some factual or probable history will be written :yes but this one is cute example and as i said one of my personal favs ;
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something modern for fun, watched BBC (again)) for few minutes and cute blond guy, presenter Steven i think while talking about UK PM Starmer visit to Albania, unintentionally said something i hear for first time that UK (English)) govt have plans among other countries to use Serbia if agreement reached as "return hub" for migrants from there as well, even non-EU country :) wasn't informed about if true (don't see why would presenter Steven i think lie) but also says a lot about modern world, not only in question of various "dumps" but more importantly that nobody even informs people about anything and deals politicians make, as i pointed few times

question of migration not even important and contrary to opinion "that western are full of various migrants anyway while some eastern not" world changes in that way as well - increasingly our buses are driven by people from Sri Lanka, various Africans work on constructions, food deliverieas are done by mostly foreigners, and recently building i live in is claned by person from SE Asia and so on (badly)).... problem of workforce is not in question but really don't understand that "return hubs" and dumps agenda nor idea... it should be Norway, Switzerland with clean deals and practices hehe ; and presenter mentioned it just as btw line and blew its cover "are countries like Serbia we consider for deals trustable" (in sense would money be stolen by officials, presence of organized crime, corruption etc etc even redest in media freedoms by "no frontier repertoirs" ))..... i expressed many times that i'm not in agreement with globalisation and that change of population, but am in peace with it and it cannot be stopped, but deals about hubs and similar - think there are better canditates outside EU, and Poland is best (if you kick it out)) .....as said before problem is not of kind some think - it is hard to explain when you have to argue lengthy with employer about "some missing hours", lack of free days you should have, when you have no idea about deals anyone makes, jobs are done by foreign companies and nobody is responsible for anything etc. and similar and generally on top all sort of corruption and wrong doings are widespread and there is not enough done to really reach some level, impressions is of many people... so we "falschists" are different on west where some levels are quasi reached beforehand and people are just decadent ) - and places like these :) ... but you can't stop people from going away and not having kids, think it's kind of protest in western world, no kids as protest :) lovely subject, one of my favs in modernity and it is much, much wider as seen almost in every of us bananas from US to here - so why not being also return hub for Latinos from USA :)

....just to inform how it is, people still think that we are really "foreigner free" but not at all ; and to break monotony in themes..... i think initial question on theme is proper and why countries like Albania or funny line from US like "white house considers sending migrants to Libya" and it is known as place for illegal crossing to Europe )) and i hoped Donald made solid deals in Saudia (perfect place in center of world) about return hubs :) ....let's keep it about medieval subjects and hope for someone joining with something fresh. Question of questions about Albania is "latin heresy" line it repeats till today and how they are "primates of Serbia" :) ....not to scare people "return hubs" are temporar things some to take some money and England would pay us i think ) (of course not to people))
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Christian, that's the name btw...

wouldn't even post but had to as is funny and seems that Charles A. syndrome got me :) ....so are you sure your birthname wasn't Stefan, Christian? :)

to post something substantial today, like that name game and how people often have wrong picture od some... so i even asked (Italians)) here what are 3 most common names for baby boys in your countries, as i once read article how few years ago most common here were Luka, Vuk and Lazar etc etc... something else though as example, people often think that names like Sergej or Andrej etc are Russian and then came here - just to say that Sergius were spread from here onwards and not vice-versa, were much spread in Italy and Greece and even we had few archbishops of Antivari by that name etc. Andrios or Andrew is for other... -ej is common suffix when you replace -us or -os from our ancient forms like Pompey or Popeye :) (so even used in the west in this example as suffix) for Pompeius etc... really many examples, true eastern names are few, Olga for girls (from Helga) or maybe Ivan if we accept it is not form of our and western Jovan but of some Ivar or similar northern etc. (but is used as substitute for Jovan in Croatia for example).... unimportant subject, but just something people often mistake as region of origin, to be "scholastic" today ;
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yeah, something else from recent days.... love the subject, always shocks those not knowing and how many italian-latin we have

missed to say - word we also share with Italians is "volja" or "volia" (in our original) meaning some "own wish, own initiative, desire to do etc"... of course it is from Latin in form or another... not so crucial as there are many but dislike i missed to mention it when we talked about "legions and legionares speech" that possibly influenced or was our old etc. and to correct now as is lovely.... so i talked words like "meta" (target for military use), "procedite" and others ) but this one is also from there theoretically or very probably.... because it is our military command for "at ease, as wish/want etc" and speculatively speaking as we don't have sources about legion commands (so might be true or rather is) "voli(n)o" is our command BUT maybe informally at least used by Roman legions i.e. army ;) just they said maybe "volo" or similar form.... shame i forgotten this word as is "important" for theories :yes lovely as all, and again one of maybe Latin/Roman commands we kept even in army and Italians not generally ;.... as said many subjects, can't cover even part of them and sometimes forget as important for some story
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problem with existing theories or quasi solutions - to say to people - is that they are basically founded on some wrong initial idea and then when faced with more probable ones it "shakes the (badly) founded basis"... for example if majority accept that earth is flat for example and then make some solutions about sun movement, others speaking about sun movement based on rotation of sphere are in "trouble" because flat dogma is accepted ;) etc. So that is case with linguistics and is for now in "flat earth" stage still when it comes at least to so called "Serbo-Croat" and many word roots and practices there (and also possible Serb tribe formation in particular)

and that is why history and events are helpful, and timelines.... so it is almost idiotic to argue are some words or names "from Hungary" here when we and Italians used them centuries before actual Magyar arival, it is "passe" to argue are some "kreekisms" :) here from Osmanlian times when we lived with Greeks for many centuries before Turk arival and many more ; ...same is case (again) with formation of "Serb crown kingdom" and struggle where Italians took part more than actively and many things talked not to repeat.... i will repeat only this - military Latin was something different than what majority of Italiacs maybe used as well as "classical latin" or "elite", probably not used by majority of Italian inhabitants, so it is NOT just later migrations and great "punches" :) by Lombards and various Germanic tribes that "changed Italian" it is also or more that many Italics never used "elite Latin" so so forms kept only across Adriatics, in our kelias :) (and again esp. in Serbs not only due to ekavianism, but forms sometimes different than Macedon speech, Bulgarian even Romanian etc as today Serbia was heavily "elitist speech" etc all talked)... as well as parts of Dalmatia but much lessand however we and Iatlians launched "kravata" as fashion detail :lol (as Croats were invited by Byzantines and we bith disliked them))

why was it all ultimately often hidden or changed or reinforced in wrong conclusions during later times as well on wrong conclusions.... i don't see any other reason than opportunistic ones, rivalry etc. as said many times.... Hungary or Magyars are perfect example, while initially in good or same goals line with us, by the time progression we found ourselves in rivalry etc. as talked... so times around mentioned Bela and Emeric are interesting - Manuel Komnenos even promised "Byzantine crown" to Hungarian ruler and we and Venetians (and French to extent) said "look at this" :) and so on lovely, but it is not about Hungary and word roots ) just took it as good example of rivalry that followed our med dynasty and our and (some) Italians "contras".... lingustics and prectices in some origin is other subject and most likely we gave a lot of them via Roman tie than some Indo-European roots etc etc. If root is old, we would not share it just with old Latin but wider "tribal community" continent and more than indicative that even in small detail countries like England, France (hehe) and we do share "ekavianism" while Germany (Hainry also example) and even Italy in examples some other prnuncements not matching "classic Latin" ;... more than lovely and hope you learned a lot, that is probable history while details are takable... but generally we were, before latinised, G(a)ulash! :)

(as said again that Sarmats - or Jeziges with interesting name in particular - to be that tie and spread of Latin forms to Slavics is to me very unlikely due to other reasons and lack of further Sarmatian linguistics and practices etc so i'm closer to Servs or Serbs formed as some tribe on basis of older population and name is more than present in antics etc etc but not "holy bible" anything, simply we have tooo many Roman practices that are forgotten and hidden....) ...just hobby and we are talking about, but it is not nice to be blind to facts ;)
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also, change of subject, what is interesting (we don't know exact date but is guessed that it was his reign) and "great fit" to how i presented some things (not becuase i presented but as is closer to possible events) is that pope during "closing of Antivari archbishopric" was named Inokent II :) if you followed and it is one arch- again returned by either Nemanja or his sons (he was still alive but sons had real powers etc).... reasons of closing might be (if papacy wish) as i said in various struggles in Italy above all but wider as well, ancient things against "neo-Rome" often as i put poetically etc. and also maybe idea to push whole centers to other ones, maybe under Hungarian control, among else

so what is super, super interesting to times of Innocent II (not from same family as III btw, but says nothing, probably same faction) is that passions went high in Rome during his rule, Senate was returned as some institution (as said Sarra was in his time the most notable senator etc) in contrast to papacy often, he had good (and also cold later, even animosity) relations with mentioned Louis VII (who initially went close with Huns etc) and excommunicated "our pal" Roger II of Sicily, who by Byzantine claims, was behind some early Nemanja activity and revolts :) and he was the one to put Templars under direct "papal paw" (and later financial arm they were)... super as i say and again fit... our rulers restored archbishopric but guess we regreted it fast :) and were 5 years excommunicated eternally :) ....lovely stories and like when there is fit in some details and how events developed, we are now talking again just middlea ages... so Roger, Senate, even Templars and warm-cold relations of Capets during pope when Antivari was "derogated" in relation to our story is almost nice fit, but it is so cute that pope was Inokent ;) ....sometimes things like that are cute - so for example pope during Miluten's big rise and hold of Albania and actions in Greece was (short in position though) also Honorius (and also Savelli), last one i think with that name and similar.... so not even our but also French oscilations are tracable and why i say that whole "Helen theory" fits also and it follows pattern of Capets which looked for ally here, so they tried with Hungary, with Byzant but "true son" came with our crown, but generally wasn't talking that at all in this post, just to approve how it was French pattern that fits... really made many connections and effort, that I really hope even average knowledge reader catched it and how things went even, always add of course...
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think this is my last but is important if lover so better now than never.... )

to understand events around "fall of Tusculum" history of that "commune of Rome" is great thing to know and basically important to note that Romans during whole continental events and often shadowed by them, in paralel led their own mini "repeat of Roman conquest" :) in vicinity of city and "commune" had some tries to just conquer or incorporate neighboring towns, totally regardless of even papacy and those questions or its stand or religion... so basically fall of Tusculum was done byjointly papacy and commune, rare example of their coop and just as popes gave "green light" for action and destruction as "commune" wanted it.... as said for some reason Barbarella ) stubbornly defended it and also for some reason i'm sure that our elite did as well and was one of reasons for contacts (which came before his visit) and greeting to Barba by our rulers and Tusculum fell after his death... why exactly some of us defended it guess nobody knows, but it was surely some "ghibelline" stronghold... however one of theories is that Colonnas might be of their descend...
In 1188, the Commune of Rome reached an agreement with Pope Clement III (1187–1191) by which it returned to the pontiff some of the powers lost since 1143 (the right to mint coins, royalties, etc.) and also undertook to respect cardinals, clerics and visitors, to return the revenues and properties of the churches previously plundered, to perform military service to the pontiff and to swear allegiance to him as lord of the city. The commune, for its part, obtained from the Papacy not only official recognition of its existence and its territorial aspirations over Tuscolo, but also reparations, donations and financial contributions.
so it was rare case of their cooperation while "commune" itself was regularly anti-papal... it gives another dimension if you understand it properly, while i say again why we and Barba defended it (and why fall maybe additionally shocked us) is unknown

further interesting moment is that time of Innocent III was not only of "split" in our royal family but also deeper split in commune of Rome itself as pope, contrary to before, decided to appoint/elect senators which in turn led to not stability but as said even deeper division among Roman families and revolts among opposing factions... so another less known thing about his rule and again had its consequences maybe on us i.e. our ruling family...

next interesting thing is maybe also biggest event in mini history of Rome in XIII c and of course it is again related to us if you follow :) ...1234 was year of new revolt in Rome by "commune" and led by taa-daaa senator Luca Savelli ) against pope Gregory IX, relative of Innocent, while of course Luca was of Honorius ;... Constantin Staufen :) (later x-commed himself for other things)) comes to popes aid against commune and Savelli, making it unforgivable in our eyes and it is about time when we decide to take some pro-French policy and only few years later "Helen" is around etc. Friedrich II and Gregory IX, btw, defeat communal troops, goes by itself...

:lol again laughing because of that representation of two mentioned on US congress and both were pretty much "bad guys" for both Romans and Savellis and us :) but least important thing and that is far away America... to continue story, Colonnas only later come to more prominence in Rome and its events, but is far from end of ties with us and Romans... fate of Boniface, our and French "kiss-kiss" period, first salting of Preneste, all talked more than enough, so to jump and fast forward to Oddone, only Colonna pope in whose time we, even if Nemanjic dynasty is sadly over, again gain some strengthening of our rulers position and respect from even Sigi and all (sadly vinegia recieves few punches, but that's other story))... papa Oddone also (being only Roman pope for long) brings some order among Romans and even abolishes "commune" shockingly but aimed at stability..... but after his cicle it was not end of Colonna troubles and very soon there is another salting of Colonna possessions by papal troops, tries to declare "Roman republic" and coresponds to time of George B. here as i talked when we also did not cooperate well with papal envoys.... etc etc.

lovely history if you understand and hopefully i presented it well, but very very shortened and just concentrating on events when our ties with Romans are visible... it deserves much longer evaluation and generally my aim is to even in shortened versions you get some rough picture.... summarum: Tusculum destruction is done by commune for some local reasons and with pope (rare thing), while we and Barba opposition it seems, with Honorius and Savellis our coop with commune strengthens and rift with Staufens, warming with French and so on as above..... lovely, more than lovely and hopefully something valuable to learn and get for era lovers :yes (known really to few)
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Re: my pub themes and similar

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IDK, there are many spectacular things we talked inhere, really huge theories and possibilities, but all that concerning our fall and events in Rome as more than connected is huge as well - not due to anything else than it marked the end of state, while personally prefer much other things mentioned....

so only for my international readers and lovers of themes to give this, while subject is talked as much as i see so we can't talk undocumented things (of course we can but historians can't write books)) but this is almost scary just to be another coincidence :) so i will underline years for those not knowing... personally doubt any coincidence - especially concerning that relation is almost visible.... so like this
Traditional Papal enemies such as the Prefetti di Vico were destroyed, while the Colonna were reduced to obedience after the destruction of their stronghold in Palestrina in 1437.
and then
The Ottoman Empire invaded and started pillaging inside Serbia's borders in 1437
next
The massive fortress was preserved, however, until Lorenzo Colonna attempted to return in 1438, when it too was destroyed on orders from Vitelleschi.
and then
In 1438 the Sultan (Serbia) attacked again. This time, the despot had to let them seize Ždrelo and Višesav: the peace that followed was not longer than the previous one. etc (there was another attack in 1439 unlike to already defeated Colonnas, my add)
:lol of course i'm not saying that papas/papal forces and Osmanlian coopereted but is really really funny in years and moments... so i'm saying that we and Colonnas did cooperate not else.... what to say, like many just visible and to me even "touchable and real" thing...

to say again, years and years of own experience and research really led me also to conclusion that just because of all said and is sometimes contrar to logic and common sense and how ties developed, we can all claerly doubt many events in XIV c until our fall - not in total but in details, as i said for example of Stefan L. and his quasi presence on side of Ottomans on Nicopolis and similar, often sources are from Bulgarian, Byzantine and Hungarian sources, sadly in moment all "treaditional rivals" so very doubtful and real events and ties negate many of quasi known stories as said... for example again, who likes fairytales and similar "Olivera blah, blah" maybe sounds as nice story ) but reality as i see was that Sigismund had no real interest to make Stefan stronger by quasi history, while he did... he did however take cities back from George, but it doesn't make George any "traitor".... more than any Olivera, Stefan position was strong due to Colonna pope and later Sigismund BUT if it wasn't before there would be no reason Sigismund to elevate and make him stronger... so stories about his roles in previous battles to me fairytales, worth repeating many times... BUT as seen generally falsificating of our history maybe started rightly with establishment of Nemanjic dynasty etc etc. while we and Magyars are greatest pals today :) think that it is safe to say that they were main source of fake representation (i.e some from there) of our events and figures, until end and fall, we are just talking openly and relaxed today i hope ; ....so again, if lover my advice is really really take with huge precaution all you think you know about maybe events from Dushan's death to 1459 about us..... but as seen take even things before with it :lol ...we Serbs shouldn't be angry, think that exactly that changes and fakes gave us a lot of material for looking at it from various angles and rediscovering it... funny is that it started as cooperation but in XII c things went wild :)

btw, other page says that Stefan's wife was Caterina Gattilusio not Helen, other claims her etc :) but minor thing (unless George killed whole family)) and maybe just another attack on Stefan in way that he also married "Genoese", traditionally not liked in Serbia of the times, often Byzantine allies and the ones who together with Paleologos foght us and Venice during Dushan and Andrea etc etc.... lovely and something to think about. And i say, unless theories that Lazarevic family was the one that very much was behind plot to kill saint HIM and how allegedly young Lazar poisoned Dushan's wine ;) ...but just theory in which case all "treason of Lazarevics" might be true and Brankovic family stayed loyal to Nemanjics etc, in some twisted or imagined idea... but agin big precaution and personally i avoid subjects greately but instead like to concentrate and talk earlier our history and there are lovely and spectacular stories as i hopefully presented... in this post wanted to concentrate on that lovely dates in absolute fit on troubles of us and Colonnas but agin don't make conclusions that papas and Turks cooped :) just we and Colonnas did, as said probably since fallof Tusculum more, same apropros Savellis etc ;...would like to hear from you on all our history or anything you like from older or sooner, don't be scared by lack of activity and tik-tok material on forum :lol generally 99% here like history ;.... maybe was the flicking Napoleon just masked Orsini? :) ...in any way, while you talking is less likely principessa, hope i talked a lot and made some themes closer or fun to you
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Re: my pub themes and similar

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...and Vukashin and Lazar - even in legendary way two maybe most implicated in end of holy line of Nemanjic - both died in some mega-battles with Turks, true medievalists will know that it looks like convinient redemtion or "white washing" etc. but again what to say with huge apetite of papa-Jacques :) so we will never know.... people often say that Serbs are "conspiracy theories" prone but from our prospective it looks more like we were "victims of big conspiracy" and why so, if you get it

talking about Italy, often that "ethnic moment" is quasi important and in times we talk about many Italian figures had at least maybe some German origin and huge was influence and presence of various Lombard-Germanic element that alsmost is impossible to determine line of particular families and clans there etc. Funniest that often some clans of maybe Schwabish origin :) were the ones tied with us and "ancient Rome" faction... so some propose that Tusculum was such example and so on, hard to tell.... that's why our (on first look) "small" history might be helpful for greater continental events who likes - as our elites seemingly held some anti-Constantine position and "arian" and similar in line with some Germanics, pro-Licinius and similar if you get it, and maybe big part of "western Greeks" to say that way... so it is interesting for consideration... Italy is really huge subject per se and I say million times despite all events there often gave "rhytm" to many wider events... again it is lovely how some our figures earned "jail" in XX c undeservedly and always mind that XX c was just a caricature of some old events and both there was great misuse of maybe honorable names like "arinas", "dandolos", "altomanuses" and similar totally in twist and opposite of their medieval intent or practice., some perversion.. ; ...what you say, if we go mor modern French historian jokingly also said to me that Napoleon was modern figure who maybe "killed most French" :) ....but again, blame mostly papa-Jacques :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wia9fWovdW0

end of Nemanides, direct Capets and Dandolos musically represented, for millionth time :)
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Re: my pub themes and similar

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little humor...

kiss kiss on river Lys. looking for possible places where Miluten and Charles C. Valois signed famous treaty, my investigation concluded this must be it :lol no marking no monument, nothing sadly, how fast French forget :)

really place in France where river starts, pic from wiki... looking at it all without some depth and importance, guess Philip and Charles needed some able troops there after French (again) were slaughtered in the region just few years before - after all night of "party" and festivities, Neverlanders caught them unprepared ;) oh my Franks, oh my... so whole treaty wasn't about Byzant and east at all but Miluten, by then famous for his "precise actions" and arrests continentally to help Capets bring responsible to justice :)

concluded nothing special... as far as i know last man seen with document and treaty was papa-Jacques :)

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Re: my pub themes and similar

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...really there was almost no significant or more "sui iuris" entity in the west during era - and strangely by "today norms" the "west" of the era ininclude Hungary, Serbia and Byzant ; - that did not fight French troops at least in some moment and that did not at least once leave "thousands of them" dead on battlefield despite superior armor and cavalry, mythical ) (and of course some in Levant and N Africa as well, by same scenario)) ...really not single one, Scandinavians did it, English, branches of Spaniards, Germans, Neverlanders and Belgs, Huns (during French overtake of country), Greeks, all :) Maybe some numbers of dead French are exaggerated but story is always same, either too much "party" for French troops before someone finishing it in the morning, or superior knights that despite all somehow finish killed by anyone inferior ).... question is did we also fight them at least once, answer is maybe if we take that maybe some troops that attacked Miluten in final years of his rule after papa-Jacques called "crusade" were maybe French from around, but again they were defeated and Miluten pushed northwards :) When it comes to numbers really great numbers Sicily (was there really almost 15000 French on isle after just 15 years after Stefan took it?) Thessaly, even Bruges i mentioned above seen quasi 2000 French kinght perish after party and so on, horrific numbers and questionable - but what is not in doubt is that they just died around, fought almost everybody and then came again ;.... so again France is really big philosophical question, maybe biggest of the era and how it enlrged and preserved itself as great power despite all, and unavoidable subject for medievalists so pardon if I sometimes insists but you get why... and all taken into consideration they almosthad no some long, succesfull campaign full of victories and similar but they managed, even campaigns in Italy by Stefan Anjou (lovely)) were often product of some luck, so once he just hid troops behind hill giving Germans impression that battle is over and they relaxed and so on.... if he didn't hide French during battle story would probably same to many others - French despite superior cavalry would end dead :lol (but mind that Stefan beat teen Staufen))

so we had to help them conquer Flanders, no bad feeling to people of Neverlands and maybe not our war, but look at them and you almost feel sorry :) ...really to finish with something serious, asked that historian on question of did papa-Jacques really declare (at least low level similar to Manfred illegal-Staufen and many other rulers) crusade against Miluten, since it really is not mentioned by all and question is of its effectiveness and who would listen etc... historian could not help me directly with that so still dubious (probably more question of papal docs, not for French royals/state historians) but doesn't mean that it is untrue and maybe papa-J mentioned in some act or speech known to just few historians, but importance is low as it had no effect on both Miluten nor our dynasty who even spread in years after it and demanded continental title from subsequent French popes :) (main reason why i doubt that Jacques really declared it etc) ....but if true and it was real papal call, i change my opinion in sense that it just adds to our dynasty and to Miluten in his rich bio (often hidden or attacked) and when you compare to who popes declared it at least once in the west, it is lovable detail :) ....so again, while i couldn't gain clear answer from him, just to add that i asked if there is consensus and what is known, but in anyway no effect if declared and on the contrary cool detail if true so Miluten went real "rollercoaster" of relations with many famous French figures from posible grandad Louis, via Stefan A. of Al. :) to Philip, Clement and Charles V. - and on top of cake one (maybe) crusade from papa-Jacques :) (and he arrested Michael)) ...if all was like that king like few had and as lover of themes really (also crescendo with Dushan considered) almost sad that our and French contacts, slight rivalry and history in region did not last at least 150 more years as was really fun and eventful :yes ...btw, nothing special on Lys, just that first permanent structures in region were built during Kesar time and expeditions, maybe that is why they called our troops for "restoration" :) ...generally don't like to talk much about others but again, talking often about French is mandatory for era, and great inspiration for satirical or funny approach, so pardon again "madmazels"....just trying to make some invisible stories based on high probability and enrich known history so i had to talk about you... always join me and offer something, this is your unique place and person for it :)
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