my pub themes and similar

[Ale]

must say this for end.... DW German state sponsored international TV is having today (in my area) show about right wing in Europe.... so they start in Rome - a birthplace of falschism! - with some minor party and their supporters and among them is guy having flag of Serbia among symbols and flags i don't know at all.... so is it intention to send message to eventual watchers that our flag is one of the "right-wing/falschist symbols" and should be threated as etc...

in the meantime some TV reporting on issue i mentioned showed recordings from Kosovo PM gathering before elections where young people are waving Albania's, US, Germany and Greater Albania flags (with some municipalities in Macedon, Serbia, Montenegro etc as part) so it is not same, as it is about democracy ;

but remember it is that red-blue-white (so rape as it should be just red-blue as sported allegedly by one of pre-Dandola son kings) that is falschist symbol and react if seen!! ...... .... i kiss you all my vikings of sex-deviation, we should make big orgy..... but just we included. ... so much for pub theme, not my special interest, but i did offer much more substantial and asked for help, so i'm not sure if guy paying his guard with gold is better than some other taking kids from others for imperial guard, talking cultural differences........

[Ale]

...was reading through something and what is that organisation, really first time here but we are not memeber state in Ep anyway etc... know some things as most of us even with idiotic approach to politics (not sin per se even i don't care muchabout political groupings and activis/taking part but know more than average maybe etc) - for example i know Venetian falscist Le Pen family etc. but never heard for those details....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliance_ ... nd_Freedom

so short, reallyshort and many subjects are deeply philosophical in every society, but short to the max... first noticeable thing is that article states giving "Serbian nationalists"... even "nationalist" is deeply controversial and abused subject to start with it, without need for any widening. so some use it as own monopoly and under own interpretations etc. so there could be "pro-western" (in sense of political institutions, rights to citizens etc) Serb nationalist and not only monopolized "pro-Russian" as they claim, for unimportant and btw example... and we had more than few of such nationalists through history, probably since meds

second, ultra short is interesting how historically the peak of "European right wing" (in mid of XX c) was generally "anti-Serb" (at least vocally) and supported virtually every faction/nation around us, to extent it lead to genocides, including by occupiers.... all known things no need to waste words there, but there is also some minor trickery inthere as historically both falschism and nazi Germany were - at least mildly you'd agree - anti-Serb and often armed various factions here and exercised tough occupational policy with instances now "voted" genocide in serbia itself etc etc. so either that rught wing wasn't true or this today isn't to saya bit humoristically...

third, really not every "feeling" or "sensibility" or "nationalistic like wordings" is same around continent as Europe was never same nor united, clear... so - maximally short againevery subject deserves book per se - Greek and Serb nationalists co-oped well in say begining of XX c, while their cause was almost unimportant (to say with not right choice of words) or better "not so important" for Scottish, English or Swedish nationalist, nor they had ever same enemies through history.... think this is alsomore-less understood and clear, but just for talks and repetition.... so - small summarum - we don't "dislike" (for pure example while we have solid relations in moment) Turks because they are Turks, but because "feelings" (which is truth) that they ruined our state which had potential, ruled harshly often for centuries etc etc. while in Scotland (example) it is someone else and similar... similar is (often expressed) anti-islamic sentiment, not because we are "racist" and this or that, it was historical runination of our temples and their transformation into mosques etc etc etc.....

and last thing, minor but interesting if you never heard, from article i noticed is that it mentions "solid relations" with pro-Iranian Hezbollah, alleged.... now, if you never heard Hezbo(a)llah was one of few/only "well known" or high profile (terror or not?)) organisations that allegedly participated in Bosnian was of course on known side.... some say they came "to kill a little Serbs" some say "to defend islam and thse they consider close" etc. on preference and is really minor thing but is noticeable and interesting for now history lovers - so strange for Serbs to "like Hezbollah" generally etc.

so generally momopolisation, fake concepts, missunderstandings etc and few interesting minor things... first time hear for "AFP" while know those mentioned above and not all are so bad at all etc. to me it is all pub subjects and if you dislike meds (most beautiful and least genocidal era)) drop some line if you have idea where are we going as continent and will any of extreme and catastrophic views really happen - islamic state with turning back and female slavery ) or some new right wingers and many conflicts? ; or generally what you find fun ot illogical.......... and whom you vote? last one, i really hope my pals signor Zaia and monsignor Salvini are not that ultra right wing kinda like them ....and Venetia and Scotland even ruled by commies or suicidal capital is same to me - should be indie

[Ale]

"AFP" but OK they are falschist as well, French like French

i'm, always say, more person of some "romantic ideals" and principles above "interests" and some clear, visible profit to act upon, for example... so not only better looking and smarter than many of your, my principessa, but as well.... seriously what motivates me often is more some fairness and principle, while interest is not even seen... so, example, we have some ties with Scotland (probably since Miluten and Philip)) and somehow, even without some "interest" at least not known to me without looking at all papers and possibilities, it is fairness in me that says it would be "repay" if we are among first to recognize it, when it decides. some dude that is something like one of influencers of SNP was our state medal recipient, maybe even (don't know details of newer history) veteran of Macedon front etc. Part of city where biggest temple is was once owned by Scot, general Scot was here, nurses etc.... similar is with Vinegia as said many times, we together created little Urosio thatset foundations of today's most relevant state on continent, realistically...... etc.

history is not only detective discipline but also philosophical one.... smart people are not looking at it to see "tho whom to revenge or hate" but (take meds above all) what was really truth and what is really hidden, and many was.... so take HIM and his (those were not just churches or temples as i said they were tombs) tomb - it was targeted not because of "historical importance" - it was possibly because of many secrets it had in it and who man really was... luckily few docs survived and knowledge of citizenship, which was rarely, rarely awarded esp. to no-Italians.... but just one small detail, not all nor dominant - possibly in architecture and original, ruined details and decorations it had answer why Miluten was "holy" what artefacts they had etc and role in events...

so, generally from politics to history - there are hills of papers, books and interpretations - but there is also logic and brain... so other minor "cute" thing how pornokrats are making (very few and almost non present but i seen) porno how "Turks should rape Serbs" inspired by some porno from across Atlantic where for "blacks it is reparation for white slavery" - simply there is big brain error in minor (but socio mentionable) example ...as historical "niggas" until some 1815 were we etc. not Turks.

and so on, glad DW brought it up, one of many great subjects continetally.... as said, even on that i'm anti-globalist in sense that we equalize unequlizable things and present our symbols as some global, even less some of our figures and events.... so Drina wasn't "anti-globalist" march it was march of victorius army in one "minor" battle (for continent but big for country 10x and more smaller than France) and idea was creation of bigger state under our dominance, mainly aiming people of similar languages etc both we and Austria though used eachothers for own interest when needed before etc.... since mentioned - for those "anti-racists" and black loving among you - ironically troops that liberated Serbia in 1918 had some percentage (not majority) of black troops, under French service of course, not Austria ; ....but we are not going into other extreme - lets make Serbia country with black majority etc ..... just saying that some blacks maybe catched some bullet in some village etc. one thing is saying things historically, the other making it policy

so also those "copying" anything should first look at reality - i don't know how it is done in London, but let's start first with idea that this contry sunk deep, needless wars when many had not, one of the 15 poorest in continent not richest and where people leave in great numbers annually etc etc. always impression that even retarded birds on tree branches know many things i say, but obviously sometimes they do not...... our similarity with America is only that we are among most powerful.... and fight Heznollah ocassionally..... etc....

always join, interested in some younger views - are you gonna convert for 13 wives or becuase it is best social model......... ...or you vote Salvini becuase you think it should be indie north or just because Rome is full of falshcists? ....think i explained our stands max shortened in just few posts so that solved, we must because we are behind it all!! - but generally watch shows and memorize well "symbols of falschism" and that red-blue aqiulas.........

[Ale]

wanted shortly for lovers to say (while talking from head and not with deep knowledge of all papers there) what in practice meant citizenship to Dushan and family probably kind of "outside the walls citizenship" etc... it meant in theory, while we don't know particular cases of use, that our king had protection for example if he ordered some ship to sail... if anyone would confiscate or attack it, and it was his - it would mean "touching Venetian citizen ship" in theory... or army under direct hand of Dushan etc. theoretically as from head.... or later George example, werent purely honorary titles "outside the walls" etc...... almost like our to doctor Eco - as in practice he said that French are bad

....so little Urosh I, so we are talking "Rascian king" and son of Dandola and not earlier rulers without king titles, so little and cute that he was known as "Rugged one" among nobles we are all guessing due to personality (as in our language it is not same as English and is often more about tough person) but might be size. lovely, as his maternal family sounding ....and want to repeat - while myth mainly concentrate on Miluten "the French bastard" just due to Byzantine propaganda and he wasn't loved there - even worst case of "pedo" than him ; ....people don't understand it is all mind games in time, was way to attack someone and for Urosh it is not so known becuase he wasn't in focus of Byzantines.... what is some point? it is not true in either example as i see - for Miluten it was convinent as Byzantines themselves gave him hand of girl (which was practice, moving or not but didn't mean "bed") just for the reason and later made story so looks like intent as wife that Miluten wanted to marry from Byzantines refused, however in Urosh case it is, what is repeat, two scenarios - either Helen guessed age of birth is wrong, as almost all regarding identity so likely as all, or as suggested - and events look like - Dragutin wasn't her son at all..... makes sense by events and not narratives, as SU II is Miluten title-name, he escorts Helen and southern regions are with him etc etc.

without we knowing details and can only speculate, simply they do not do it openly if they did and princesses always had entourage and own nation surroundings/company... etc. Miluten was king of highest political-intellectual skill (we are talking for times) with Dushan - in sense that sailed through uneasy waters and went without penalities even Venetians gained )) and similar.... since it is in Byzant myth open, it makes diplomatic incident instantly, if you get it.... so very likeable story, but in one case maybe intent in second pure mix of years or identities ; ....when Miluten was born Helen was (by wrong year maybe) 19-20, Urosh arounf say 30 etc.... but "blinding son" is even above and it is by no Byzant or externals - but by son himself cute, to "holy"

btw Anna story is so strange and raised objective suspicion when marriage really happened, and like in previous cases sources are questionable and just stories.... see what worried me (not so much) and some Italian historians - if Enrico lived 150 (ok was old in any version) really Anna should be very mature by stated marriage date... she surely wasn't girl and lived 30 years past by sources, surely younger but it means nothing as she could be 30 to live 30+ years past king... but it was rare marriage date, usually younger brides. but there are few cases in history, esp. in Italy.... but if she was teen, somehow grandads age is too advanced for practice, as her father is not known for other kids and marriages etc etc. so you get it, generally there is some matemathics and case for detection.... but generally not important...... some samll point, sexual behavior and attack onsons, fathers often some "tool of battle", with religious backgrounds, biblical as well etc. so not taken as stated. Regarding HIM and father, he imprisoned "dear papa" as anyone normal would do after raising army twice against him but the rest and death is story - "with bare hands?" etc. many died soon after sons rebellions, including mentoined Urosh so even practice and even least important of cases in father-son relations even if they were eliminated.... simply, you do those things in series - Miluten would get rid of Draguten (fell from horse again, now in Greece)) or Dushan of his half-brother to who he given title and lands in deep south

love the stories and calculations, however in practice if you go Venice, you can always impress with some local story they maybe do not know much, but is touching most sounding last name etc. ....and you always say - "we know, our agents, we were behind it" ..........but those masks.... surely can't be true, just joke..... and Anna looks, it is killing me........ esp. if it was late marriage.... but beauty, no discussions.

all for some life, no trouble for me to add something, just trying to maybe make it clearer while none has definitive answers on medieval questions (guess Anna photo would clear many things) but even if you shyly just read my principessa, i'm happy and satisfied )

[Ale]

however... if you are interested, while i said principessa-queen age is not important that much (while she as person was) something else is at stake here and is relating one famous event "global" of the time (quasi, so did it disturb England or Sweden much etc) and why we "rise eyebrows" at all and why i say "it was clear triangle" from which we picked both future queens from both major participants, plus (possibly or surely, Dandolo factor is important as they were "at odds" and queen was D) crown etc.

simply too tired now to make it longer, maybe some other time or not becuase it is sweeter to be without explains - so i just give this short article as example

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raniero_Dandolo

Italian have more details etc, but nothing substantial regarding years as it would be included in Eng version if there si consensus or knowledge...... so as seen good question is [WHEN?] and whenever articles has such questions and many unknowns, clearly sometihing is broken "in chain" or "njam, njam (as we say) pass the salt" (but leave most for Colonnas)) tasty docs etc... if you get it and it is son of such prominent figure and no year of birth just some "fl."-es of some office holdings.... i think i'll not even come back to do it longer, something i told before on events and so on.... one republic in sea of monarchies, one not yet monarchy and one that lost "old glory" in moment (if Charli was glory at all)) often in debt around Paris before another inflation and transiting to Gaulish ) etc. but at moment deed some murky things and even impressive

"procurator" was even without "vice-doge" addition almost second most important position, so mix with years, how old she was and all is interesting and why we (including some Italian historians as said) stopped there for a moment and said "hey, wait a moment...." etc. was our father in law actually most important figure due to Enrico's old age (if trustable) and so on.... generally, who cares after 821 years and even city is not fun anymore with Turks ) but for lovers fun, interesting theme.... hope you all get something out of it while article is short but just because.... even if importance is low today, agin hats off to our rulers then, papers or not. dribling, and it took only 100 years from birth of Urosh to peak etc..... even cute how things started to heat in "triangle", then papal slap, then laws and Venice into slavery i.e. some infights ) ....but as said not important today, but who can't like or laugh at least if likes subjects, maybe not indeed so "global" but at least for 3 of us, plus Greeks is fun........ alsolike how Pierre Thomas described some figurative "end of era" - "Dushan is dishonest and geopolitical situation complex" ) while "i failed in Byzant, to sign their submission" etc....... generally i maybe widened again, but generally hope you get my point and focus in why some near years are doubted by mu/us and some Italian historians etc..... French one, in great speculation but not fantastic BS, went even further to relate "holy Louis" and "our holy" etc... all liked by me and approved, but not important, maybe we profit someday with some nice monument....

[Ale]

...generally not doing longer versions as it is good enough ) but what i like is that few foreign figures related to us (probably continental thing due to years mix and sources) had clear cases of vampirism so Raniero is one of them, died on Crete but continued office jobs until 1242, no trouble as well as Michael VIII (that's Byzantine emperor who forgot) who died in some years of Miluten's actions, but continued activity and years later even wrote autobiography, haha.... etc. think again it is continental thing as i don't know all stories, but cute on some our examples

also is curious case of our king who by version lived 17 (by some 14 etc) without queen after separating Greek wife Angelina ) etc. why would he after so many time marry again etc..... so generally, from our side, one of speculations (Italian historians included) is that they married (Anna and him, and mind she would still be mature then)) much before and close to divorce with "Angelina", when even Emeric was alive, as well as Enrico, as well as his brother Vukan maybe.... after the fall of Constant civil war in Serbia begins among brothers (his brother is married to wife from current pope family then mind, who condemned Enrico/Raniero and all) and Stefan and Anna win, being crowned soon after etc..... hard to prove and is speculation, but logical and possible one, i say not so because our events but for puzzle of continental events and were we already "famous and influential" in Italy before those dates etc. which was true, as Roman nobility would not probably marry Nemanja's sonif wasn't case etc.... so considerable even though just version and proposition.......... what is interesting, unrelated to direct events, and kinda even Pierre's wording and approach showes is that through whole history of time orthodox church of Serbia was "treated differently" and why never was some crusader action and similar even when (kinda but unproved) Miluten or Dushan openly slapped them ....reson is maybe due to feeling that it is "cooperative" or "dual schismatics" i.e. "they separated from both us and them" etc. and will reconsider and similar, not to mention many times repeated ties in Rome... so interesting subject, not related to just early XIII... as i said humpristically from our side (our rulers) probably maybe "we don't care much about each" it's "thord way" or similar interpret....

something totally different - i missed when i talked about Volsci and Tullii to mention minor thing... so pronunciation of that name -ski is good example (something i touched but is minor) of how maybe Kesar or some Latin would say, or what was original sounding of our state in the west (or should have been) so Raskia and Raskiani... for details but minor

[Ale]

or better said Raskii or even better Rasii as "Raskiani" is not in spirit of old Latin

people don't understand that regions Serbs controlled esp. later (and esp. in 1350 with Pella and Olimpus)) were - as i talked extensively regarding Roman tie and our possible name and all - so full of history and esp. in times of religious domination and subjects, due to (for example) both Constantine and Licinius having tie with some our regions and similar... and our elites knew a lot about it (plus who knows who they were and mixed with or combined) so generally there was no need "Venice or even whole Italy" to bring any influence as they were already present, as well as knowledge about older events (even incredible word forms closer to Latin, not present in Italy even anymore etc)..... so in discourse of previous subject and since mentioned (and last) while it is alleged and possible interesting is that claim by Nemanja and his decend from Licinius. btw, who doesn't know he was Roman official and Const. co-emperor and rival from whom C. even took Byzantium and renamed etc. etc. so maybe in our elites idea existed for some time of "usurpers" there and similar plans as some myth or destiny, for example.... so you get it what i'm aiming at and with comical lines about "our agents Ds" etc.

lovely subject, more than lovely and nothing to be ashamed of as it was time and place and is old history and all super cool and i think only makes our elites "up in charts", not down etc.... so generally where i see also some "love" from French and Italians in the times.....(and dislike from Greeks haha) all said to help you better understand the era only I and doctor Eco hold "in little finger" ...as said many times, dispite it classification, Serbo-Croat and esp. Serb ekaviandialect has some forms and changes closest to old Latin forms, had even more once... regarding subject of last few posts of course there would be place for Greek sisters in our society - better as slaves for international markets, and the rest as "sklavi" to stay in region with us lovely subjects no sarcasm, and no possibility is out of question (not meaning last sentence))

[Ale]

change of subject and talking about "sack ofs..." ;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Licinius

interesting article, picture way. bust/head in Vienna, medallion in Paris and silver plates in London and our dude ).... alright at least Brits admit where it's from and it is all nice and all but - return )

something else, while this is/was reality not only touching us (guess for example that they are in London since some early XX c etc)* and who knows what we once possessed, interesting is how for man who went through "erase from memory" and about who most sources are from Constantine dominated times (guess as obvious) it is recorded how "he killed families of ex-tetrarchs" (i.e. ordered) .....look i'm not saying he wasn't and is "minor" who did it compared to all - but just saying how we "learn" history, often based on biased or propagandistic sources etc. in speculation it could be "joint action" of both Constantine and him for example, not only his order as consequently bot strenghtened themselves as co-emperors etc... while Licinius showed tendencies to again share power etc. And he was too close and friend of Galerius to be "such bastard" as lines indicate etc. I say minor thing...

btw, most we know about Stefan Nemanja is from his son and king and his "vita" of father as said and for example, and he was deeply involved and "party in events" so whole idea (minor example) that father left him throne might be untrue, minor thing etc.... regarding Licinius and his great-grand-great....-son Nemanja, purely for readers, our ruler named sons as Stefan (which was name present maybe in generations in family, some say that even Nemanio's guessed father was known under the name etc) and "pagan" Vukan (oldest in fact) and Rastko, youngest... for detail..... also, btw detail i liked the most is how Nemanja was hiding in "kelias" during some not so successful camps, hence my idea of we hiding in them since Dio etc. and so on

for end, while i was talking events only including French and Italians (or dominantly Vinegians), of course we impressed also Germans, some their emperors, Spanish etc etc. generally maybe there was (except my lines on church) indeed that consensus of ancient status, almost needless to mention in sources, confirmed by Greeks i.e. Byzantines "Triballorum et Serborum" etc, Servian wall of Rome etc, not to be boring repeat

say something, principessa.


* funny thought to my mind about "Flavia Felix" coins "minted in London in III c" they have....were they really "minted there" or....... Italians comics once had some funny depiction of "British sir" but kinda grotesque... however Brits suposedly have sense of humor

[Ale]

looking at something related still, maps, appreciate there is sometimes some Italian one included etc. though this strangely (title is "empire at Const. death" who can't handle language) doesn't include Serdica among marked towns, even C. considered it, along also Sirmium etc. as new capital before Vizantion was chosen... but they renamed it alright though it would be much easier for HIM to capture it if it was chosen, or Sirmium

anyway, must have been pretty awful to leave in places like Rome or London or somwhere in Spain during our old empire, let alone and imagine how life looked at places like Singidunum or Viminatium (Vindbona, Budapestumanus)) take any on that line, esp. since loss of Dacia again etc. close to parts (whichis also today in our country and Hungary) that any Romans, classical or late never even conquered,with that "Iazyges" etc. Esp. must have been tough life for females ; ....so like how they marked some areas (that's Italian alright, i recognize) as "Diablo's dam/wall/etc" and... well that's Romanian (and word we also use) "brazd" (similar to "shara")... not sure there what that means really "furrow of Novak".... confused. but nice subject is origin of name also might be Latin as nova- is their root, so glad they brought it up unexpectedly on map.... we had few nobles with such name in meds, most notable man who led Miluten's army (of Italians) on Jerusalem ....so generally might be Latin version of name..... or it is some strange Italian meaning "new frontiers or new land" so not name at all, so you got free lesson but anyway Latin root name, while in this case maybe not relating anyone named as such

anyway, was hellish frontier obviously and hats off to IV FF and VII Claudia for defending it so long almost no penetrations recorded ...last thought, always when i look such maps, it is fun how Romania, mostly never even part of our empire is only country that preserved some name (and language, bit different than old one we used in dialect, but Romanic indeed, but wasn't part even etc)

[Ale]

in lack of anything substantial, just to note that case of Iazyges is good example of what Romans often faced (in contrast to Scott's depiction of fur wearing axemen etc, but those are Germanics in film, poor and undisciplined ones)) so they were famous for (Sarmatian Iazyges) wearing very heavy armor for the time, even something like "great helm" or closed, in Europe mostly in high middle ages for example, scaled body armor, animal elements and horse armor even - and armies were mostly cavalry, heavy one hence.... but not so great numbers and often fluctuated between Roman clients and invaders... but something that is in some armor sense above often Roman armor and practice, with more primitive economy and social life etc.

we were known in late meds as "heavy armored cavalry" and charges ("something Turks, Mongols never seen") but means nothing as French were as well, it was more due to avialability of equipment to our elites (and maybe some small school of mods) than some centuries long practice similar to them maybe, though various cavalry tactics existed etc.... with Scytho-Sarm tribes and languages there is few similarities, except few cases, while with Roman-Latin many, many practicies (including tombs) we can find in Roman world, plus often alliances from some inhabitants of Italy, more recorded by Byzants with Lombards etc etc. plus Roman nobility ties.... but doesn't mean that "Serb tribe body" did not incorporate various tribes (mostly often unnamed Slavs etc) but it is unproven that direct movement of Serbs was indeed from some northern parts, plus as said our and Croat (which is different case due to more sources about them, on us few to none and their dialect is more Slavic and "softer" compared to Latin sounding ekavian etc etc) tribe name doesn't fit "Slavic pattern" and names are untranslatable or (in our case) Latin sounding etc etc. could be, as talked, historical error which Greeks among first "sniffed" with some areas in Greece and Macedon named similarly etc.... generally too few linguistical forms similar to Sarmats directly.... possibility is as i said that whole 4-5 centuries later due to Slavic majority something that was originally imagined as "Servii" transformed in "Serbi" due to known tribe in the north.... even Bulgarian behavior in some earlier centiuries indicates something strange, not only that some their emperors often struggled with our defensive tactics but also calling Serb prince to be crowned emperor and similar.... doesn't matter much but in discourse often is more interesting question why so good relations with Italians than other famous things, but to round it as theme as mentioned Iazyges and their heavy cavalry was mentioned )

[Ale]

however subject is interesting and worth knowing more...

hope i'm not making any diplomatic incident ) but seem to remember some old story, mind it is not history just something btw, legend, how quasi some tribes in Montenegro today quasi had some practices and similar treatment of fathers of older age i.e. "killed by sons" etc. (even cliffs mentioned etc) know nothing about it and it is total consensus that Montenegrians are in no way related to Serbs, and i tend to agree and always repeat (haha) but just saying btw and it was country of many tribes, while story might be just legend based just on that story of Iazyges, or to make them more scary or similar, or attack by someone.... generally have no idea who launched it.... often say such legends transcend times, for example Celts or in particular Scordiscii (more related to Serbs than Montenergins)) "had habit to drink blood" etc..... i say again, our "royal rebellions" often including father-son armies in oppose are nothing in that sense nor cultural thing, only 3 princes rebelled in known/peak (Dragutin, Dechanski and HIM) times and reasons were of objective nature, often including presence of "rival son" with different nation wife etc. or aggressions by father (like on HIM)) and fathers weren't killed, or were but more as political threat to stability than some "culture or inability to rule" etc etc.... brothers or half-bros clashed more often, but pan-continental thing....

second "jazik" (many Slavic tribes word for "tongue" or "language" BUT except us as we say "jEzik" due to ekavianism) allegedly connected to Jazyges etc. Don't know much either but, linguistics always slippery field as said and people often see wrong connections or don't see obvious etc, but not that it is impossible in that sense.... something else i find interesting.... unlike many around us (mainly thinking Croats and Bulgars) - while discutable since when and if we are to check every doc and Miluten eka etc - but today and probably since some moment in time, Serbs call "Slavs" not with "a" but "Sloven" with "o", which maybe doesn't say anything about "slave owning practices" ) but something else i find interesting.... does that mean exactly, as word means "letters or words" that Serbs maybe distincted them as "people from who we took the letters or words" if you get it.... speculation but fell on mind since we talk "Jezikes" of Sarma etc. Could be something third and only later acception in Serb dialect, but interesting that in region and in surrounding of two mentioned bigger tribes we do not use it as "slav"... minor one..... as said always easy to speculate while very few concrete things are preserved... simply, only that, in melodic sense and word forms our is much more Graeco-Latin than most of others, that's truth... geography and Byzant doesn't help there, as actually eastern Bulgaria (closer to Byzant center) are loosing that melody and ekavianism etc etc.

so Iazyges interesting subject generally, but nothing in lingustic except that strange name.... might be just they wore "slavic ones" around the neck ....when it comes to other subjects i tried just to explain them objectively, unbiasedly and closest to truth, as think after so many centuries of twists and runing away from facts in modern times we should all talk openly etc, and anyone liking really science should think about them that way.... i say always, harldy would our rulers so easily even give up on Adriatics etc and "dream Macedon" if there wasn't something in that, some old myth at least.... very cool and enigmatic. (in Serbo-Bulgar relations such subject led to several hundred wars, but it is idiotism and nothing special there...Italians were smart, Rascia)) nobody is saying anything because doesn't want to be white or wants any territory, we are just interested in truth.... whatched some show in Italian tvs and catholic priest went on screen having "3 finger" small statue behind him on bookshelf

[Ale]

let's now concentrate on that subject ...for lovers shortly and more for "did you know" pages

symbolically, first pope that (while gesture and 3 fingers use in forms is old, I say even relatable to Roman times and pontifexes and officials etc) explained it as use was Innocent III, so the one who maybe sent crown by theory or even if not, the "relative" of our oldest prince Vukan.... he explained it, btw, as 3 fingers use and as whole gesture from right to left on chest (which was old practice by allas well as Kesars caledae etc) so who really porno-schismatized is i think dubious almost as much as if towns in Macedon have ser- root and not bul- one etc.

lovely as many, hope i enriched you... almost in any formula we as some variable ; ...we are not talking religion here, we are talking history and correct interpret of it, in sense of all and our role, origin and ties... most lovely is that in our case in same family two factions clashed on something else arguably and theoretically, but more about symbolism - repeat might be ancient like many our things - and based on mutual belief that Servilia (meaning most noble ones and best looking etc) was our connection.... etc. so 3 as triangle ....or 3 breasts of wovelrine..... how about little Sextus principessa?

idk other explain or words but we rule(d) and never really "washed hands" from subjects

[Ale]

must admit i don't watch news anymore nor follow much... when i look for few seconds in any i see our minister with Lavrov, Zelenski with mister Emir of UAE, Rubio in Saudia Arabia.... generally in every picture domination or some undermocratic, corrupt etc. figures and similar, with all due respect to your bank accounts... people mostly made into trash, no matter how "high tech" or similar, even if they protes something they really do not know what they want and similar....

so i do not follow.... but like the titles or headlines for example "Kiev and EU excluded from talks about Ukraine" in global sense or in our state or pro-govt "Orban Victor said that Serbia is one of most successful countries in Europe"

cant be reality, some show or virtual world ......ancient and med subject and brain engagement as hobby is such relaxation, ironically... and generally find much more love for those i'm supposed to "dislike" in them.... not even doing much modern history games so apropos "our title" and themes, admit.... so if you like any subject, pub is place to find me and hope we can enlight eachother with some nice details true history is such personal relief so maybe we can help eachother

[Ale]

let's put "modernity" aside for moment, nothing good there now nor in perspective, if you ask me ) and not only us, bananas....

some things nd research of personal interest (as said it is all hobby) for lovers, but interested in some interaction as said amny times.... curious about all that stories (while religion is not my main field and all) and our med influence and spread that reached as seen to all to holy lands and Levant in way or another and all stories about relics in our possession etc. did some further looking into it and as i say "detective work",sometims in some collaboration...

as said since Miluten and during Dushan some stories circulate and often is mentioned our presence in regions even without some known "physical control"... maight be even from earlier times and obviously some traces could be found since Bodin etc. and his "strange" meeting with Raymond of Toulouse etc. his subsequrnt conquest of Antioch in which Bodin spent few years and all forwards, to strange ties, respect and maybe some speculative greater bonds than known, to recap...

our rulers, as said were related to some known artifcts and remains and centers like those of st. Nicholas and story about st Luke's relics once in our posession,among other things, strange frescoes like "white angel" etc (that was conspiration like even repainted)) and so on, real involvement in "templar controversy" and really many more i talked about, needing dr Eco now ....but lets stay on that st Luke (name and cult respected and present in both us, Croats to extent and Italians) relics that were allegedly once in our possession, intriguing story to some level,parts of it finished in Thebes (Greece, where they were initially according to sources) Padova (as we and Italians say in Veneto) and in Prague they say etc... in some coop with some knowers on int level (some digression later) there is one detail, or more than one...... first, Dushan as faras i know never spread directly to Thebes (close to Athens) but was close with his southernmost border, but some Bulgarian emperors did (his wife was Bulgar etc). Second Turks (not to say Osmans)) did not, again as far as i know) Thebes yet in times of sultan from whome allegedly George "golden fork" bought relics of Luke, Murad II ; (though there might have been some raids) so did they really have them in times of alleged "transaction" or were they already in our possession from before etc. if you get it... in any way, they finished mostly in Venice, with our involvement, but story of when they were here is dubious, so just to add for lovers and where is trick etc.

digession i mentioned is that in talks with some foreign knowers on subjects - always is laugh and as i said it many times what are we today and how country can "derogate" from some (if we all agree) "level even importance" from those times to what it is today, after few centuries of foreign (in this sense) Turkish rule... as said Turks per se are not important (but just objectivity is that they changed our course and importance drastically) and we are all, lovers of old subjects, just forced to talk it, while Turks again are not so important and we take it scientifically.... today Turks are not so big problem, nor i find them "too fanatical" nor lost case as i said as small digression as people always laugh when we talk some our medieval subjects, trying to approach our importance and involvement in maybe continental things and "harsh fate".... generally even if someone else (Byzant for example) re-conquered us, our involvement and trace would be much smaller and we all without some great stories and details to look through detective eyes etc

hope you like new details on st Luke, whole story and dubious details, always join thought i'm less present, but hope who likes there was something both useful and fun, educative... generally add something only sometimes if we are around. as always many subjects and just few quest for sisters Italians if ever, but not expecting..... hope those are all nice and worthy Pub subjects.

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if, on the other hand, they (relics not HIM and traders)) were in Constantinople in time we talk about - it makes it even stranger as our "physical rule" was even more forts away from it than Thebes and duchy of Athens, then in various controls but non-Byzantine etc ; ...so, even if unimportant, story is for detectives of times period interesting certainly - and as many we were involved at, always dubious (btw, Turks also were away from Constant then, of course, to have them)

btw - so every possibility is viable as well as every is speculative in same time, including quasi official one, as well as that relics are not his at all etc. but what we had and what finished in Vinegian lands is some "Levantine origin man" they say, from fist century, so about time and place... one of speculations in circulation, beside mentioned and that maybe we got them before, maybe even during "holy king" Miluten who really pushed Byzant hard etc etc Dushan etc. is Kantakouzenos (or Cantacouzene) family whose great rival of HIM even declared himslef emperor and was maybe main reason of great animosoty as Dushan was reallyangry at him, maybe even dtermined in conquest just to get him etc. (lousely said but there was great personal animosity later).... Kantakouzenos family is originally from some regions, maybe even "Macedonian Greeks" with once strong base in Thessaloniky.... why i'm saying - as George's wife was from that family and he is allegedly man mentionined with possessing them etc.... maybe too boring details - even for me to write - but just for you to get picture of some relations and how that family, as said that ruled shortly Constant, could take possession of relics and how they finished here, beside George indeed having norm to buy off many intereting things from Greece, including their citizens for whome he paid ransome etc.... but as said could have been earlier, different story, official one or fake trade althogether... but generally our elite, though few sources survived, was included in some "precious trade" and for some time some our silver dinars (false, ask Vinegia)) were not only in Italy but experts say found as well in Levant and maybe north African coast for some time, shorther and not longer than century etc.

story is unimportant, but has some enigmas and possibilities... although our rulers had Dandolo blood in themselves, don't believe in some direct "sack offs" by our forces could be some gift maybe even during Miluten not to repeat.... not crucial, maybe even few of them existed. but generally what is interesting for us is that "detection" in lack of sources which makes period history fun - for small detail not only Vinegia, not only Kantakouzenos, not only Byzant but evev Prague with some ties with Luxemburg family (of Sigismund) are somehow related, and even George was subject of said German-Hungarian king etc etc. but i think it is older, as well as our ties with Italians and French, unimportant.... last joke, don't know about you principessa but when I mention Padova or Padua line "questa nostra riposta, questo vostro oceanico crido..." comes to mind ....who followed my older post and just joking about one "Dandolo"

generally again, not most important story, but worth giving some relations, while our reach and some other are much more interesting, really from Raymond onwards. doesn't stop to intrigue me how come with got queens from both important players in fourth and things like that, Roman ties etc.... on all jokingly could be said that contemporary us i.e. some our chronicles that sadly did not survive or were intentionally ruined during "Phanariotes phase" maybe poked Greeks just like they often poked us so some launched line how "our rulers bought relics from Turks" while traders and originators were Byzantines in fact etc lovely but not important, hope i got it bit closer to you and what are possibilities - lets agree, many armies marched through Greecec of the times since XI to XV c think that much on it, always join if you like older subject and have some own stories...

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to say also this in "packet" (that's Franch why such face)), as it is all related contrary to some own previous posts dating to Bombast hijacked thread once ) and to be clear - the more one goes into details and trying to fit med puzzle together, the more i'm closer to interprets about not only Miluten, but also HIM Dushan that indeed maybe he never did anything to "hurt French interest" (or some imagined as they never had some firm grip in some regions near to us i.e. Capets i.e. "Angevins", again quasi ones as they were just masked direct Capetians, as talked) and despite he i.e HIM being abviously Vinegian ally (at least he thought so) and liker, and in (almost) war with Louis of Hungary (more French in some way than Hun, like Sigi etc) - so to keep it short, closer to views that he never maybe went deep into Albania (nominally Angevine but in reality poor)) and surely and source that he prepared attack on Durazzo (like to use this name, btw) is not true and he died while probably campaigning to go east again, towards Canstant etc.... so our rulers during peak did not, despite constant tension in what i called "4th trio" of us, Vinegia and some French, go openly "anti-French" nor "anti-Avignon", like many Italians btw, including Petrarca - but in the same time probably did not like nor trust French that much, as explained.... for clear fact that, after all, he dared to ask French popes for some title etc. etc.

strangely, as known, "bloody Avignon" coincide and is paralel with our contemporary peak, so make own conclusions and there was never some "crusade" while we agev some amterial and expanded in the same time i maintain original thought that relations were maybe even better with previous Italian popes, Colonna one post all that etc. but generally that so-called "Babylonian captivity" wasn't so drastic nor non-beneficial to us, plus it is specualtion that both our rulers, Colonnas and maybe some Dandolo elements supported initial Philip actions etc etc. all speculative but it was one Dandolo who wear that "dog collar" apoplogetically mainly to French but also in some indirect way, to Miluten i.e. then our rulers as Miluten was dead etc etc. not to spread but all os related...

which detail is important in discourse... well, that one that Dushan and our forces tried to struggle out exactly those regions then in Catalan and Sicilian control, and they took it over after killing French present elite etc etc. so while not hurting French, he in the same time did attack Catalan possessions, but he stopped, some say after Catalans requested meeting with his representatives and guarantee that our forces will not enter duchy of Athens after taking Neopatras Catalans spread previously to etc. interesting but we don't know all details and eventual talks if they ever happened... i told we had later fame in "Spanish lands", they wore "black rascia" but that was all later, after Aragon+Castille unification etc, some our troops and miners went to Spain etc... in any way, while this is not related, direct Dushan's action against Catalans is interesting and is somehow continuation of "playin French side", maybe reason why French popes were so "weak" towards our rulers and never dared/chosen harsher actions etc. but we speculate

in any way, while all likable, to joke... our rule in Greece wasn't so long, just few decades after HIM death etc and surely mostly over after 1371... but if we ruled longer and considering how Greeks had habit to name various rules differently - i wonder would it be called "Servokratia" or "Triballokratia" or "Sklavokratia" by them ...long live Nemanides, said million times skillful play - but again some our ties with Normans, Raymond and France date from times Dioclea ws main "Serb" state, fair to say

as said all said one can agree with but not rule, and we are discussing and how i see it currently....

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so yes, some conclusion on that subject after my "great turnaround" on theme - which btw for modern political interestents is not so important as France was long since banana and country minor importance which fall to greater neighbors in a month for example if you like modern history but ask yourself "which France?" but seriously for medievalists subject of France (while my initial idea was to give some update on relics but we went on to this interesting one) is important, maybe even central and it is one "crown" definitively all across continent talked about then, some of us maybe even having more touch than another (and strangely due to geography and unpreserved sources we maybe had more than thought and "Rascia" was basically first country in eastern part that French elites tied to etc predating but not via conquest like Byzant etc)... so small details like names "Baldovins" even in villages are small confirmation that even maybe simple folk thought "friendly" about it etc... so in that sense great, unprovable (unless some spectacular document could be found even in conspirational mantion but we think that if was true it was secret for many) speculation by some French I support not because "it makes us important" but when you think about it and really stop for a moment there, know some deeper details - it sounds possible to scary level... while it was not mainly his idea based on it, can say that French historian knowing something but not all - was "shocked" by elements in Miluten's acts - as said from hospital buliding/foundations to that "small chapel" he added to Studenica complex (which wasn't practice of our rulers), looking to Jerusalem etc etc, "holy" nickname (already forgot all similarities but there were quite few beside) that are almost copying of Louis IX (st one)... so his idea was not BS but good detective work as i say, becuase some "unknown/masked identity" fits, but also every medievalists know that "keeping track" of every princess (and Louis had many) wasn't so important plus it made countries automatically "closer" as often those having relatives on thrones battled eachother, of course... so summa summarum, theoretically it is possible and great idea. Louis and his brother that started "Anjou" (almost as great as Frankish trick with Gauls)) were not in perfect relations nor they had same ambitions, so also is theoretically possible that younger "disliked" our rulers (to extent) just because they had tie with older and "saint" (leter not during his life and by pope both we, Sara and French killed, ironically)) and so on if you get idea why it is possible in theory, not BS at all..... finally, while France went through some "popular ruiniation" in XIX etc, it is fact - while story of "bells of Nostra Dama" (meaning Helen)) maybe is myth - so it is fact that in some important French castles some our battles were depicted and similar, maybe more once in some archives and that French nobility did hold our events in some regard etc. Reasons might be mentioned, support to French after Sicily, but also that small episode in Neopatras etc etc. but also maybe for many hidden tie with later (so last four kings we talk) Nemanjic's etc. so there is no myth in it, while Notre Dame maybe not true, just for other reasons... I say if HIS motivation was even in some promiles to "help French" in action against Catalans, or to look noble in their eyes, it was good one - as post events many French ladies in Thessally were really in fear after deaths of their husbands under hand of fearsome "Catalan company".... digression, guess many of you know that Roger was basically German by father

finally and seriously while i did not joke, somehow when you read those events it is always same story - French, although having superior heavy cavalry somehow always end slaughtered across Europe really from English whose kings are so poor that he is giving kingdom for one horse and they have only bows, to Catalans both in Iberia and even Balkans as seen, in Italy, Sicily - you name it ....and they were quasi some contemporary power and most famous knights, give me a break ...but of course it is not all and French did win few battles though, and we always hear just initial failures, but Philip "the iron" did won few wars.... against Neverlands (sounds like fairy tale) ultimately and aginst one old unarmed pope, where duke Nogaret shined .....joking ultimately, French are always good for it - but intimately i do think that Philips, Dushans and similar dudes idea was alright, maybe above time but they had own goals and self-love surely etc. besides when we talk about Boniface (hope he didn't rape nuns)) it was all Sarra's fault as Philip and Miluten clearly told him not to slap around but he then.... blah blah blah...

[Ale]

subjects is, also to say, deeply interesting for lovers not only of our history, but can confirm by his interest and widely something "not finished" as subject even in France and somehow two of us plus Vinegia (which defends itself by saying we don't even exist and will remain silent)) maybe most interesting, while France was "main violina" etc. Not for some political importance but medievalists like to dive into it and why is (for example) Philip so still talked, while whole things predate him and are not related to him etc. When mentioning "political importance" maybe only here in region to some extent as some around us, even highly educated historians, but our as well, continue to repeat lies and total misconceptions about our rulers etc. maybe for some "cheap political gains" as they see, but subject is scientifical and we just want truth so i appeal for millionth time that any obvious lies must stop from all sides.... so "French connection" is relaxing and some views in that sense as it is apolitical etc etc...... what i'm trying to say - it is not important if you repeat which quasi lines HIM had in some codex (original did not survive and closest copies are from decades later) and he didn't have them i say, because it is based on "source" but....

something else is more important and why i gave English Wiki page on Miluten and call it "pearl" and really is laughable and self-contradiction ....so, for example, if you start it with line "he is known for opposing Michael VIII union with catholics etc." even like giving it as motive of his actions... well that is lie, it is not interpretation as Miluten ruled since 1282 and only one that could oppose "Lyon conclusions" could be Dragutin ...but even that is not true as "Lyon accord" and Michael VIII policy was over by the time i.e. Miluten's ascenssion etc. As already in 1281 (before Miluten again) Charles finally got "his way" and popes accepted to declare or give "green light" for Byzant action and Michael abandoned his idea and union etc. So "holy king" has nothing to do with it, it all predated him so such lines are continuation of lies about him etc. While he was most instrumental and main player in finishing Micheals rule (he was old also) and maybe arrested him at Kavala, main French player in region but it has nothing to do with religious subjects that were already finished.... Michael's alleged autobiographies might be fake and maybe written by our and French agents etc etc. we already joked effectivelly about it...

kiss kiss my horny rose as said while my tone sometimes sound threatening it is not so important today but is important for lovers and simply lies about Milten and HIM must stop ...glad i mentioned Charles or "Anjou", so brother and direct Capet - his page in Eng Wiki is much longer than Louis' - speaking volumes about it if you get it but again Charlie is not most important in it even, as plans and ideas probably date from XI c. and we joined "trio fantasticus" always join and hope i made it a bit clearer...

[Ale]

forum troubles, hope "forces of darkness" are not attacking it because of (I TOLD YOU) things you should not talk about so you hear it here and die not spreading it really wanted to add, thanks for help

you know also what we concluded, or i but i say French opinion is helpful etc.... and it fits but only if we accept theory, of course

even biological reasons, prevented further marriage to (let's say) Dragutin or Miluten (more appropriate choice) other than some i explained of some Charles daughter for example, and he tried to spread his reach regionally... while of course there was also question that he could give one only to Stefan Urosh "the rugged" (Dandolo son) due to fact that Louis (speculatevely i repeat) gave him his so it's some age, but let's say if he could marry one to Miluten... since i already gave answer no need to waste words, but is also fits - because further marriage of some close relative of Charles to our kings would be drastic "inbreeding" almost, as it would be grandson of his brother etc. So it fits by our theory, if you missed my point why would speculatively Charles avoid giving one relative/daughter to our dynasty directly if daughter of his brother already made line there etc. and repeat he went around but not here... even more possible than dislike, as i put it few posts before. But yes it could explain rivalry as well

also might be reason why till the end there was not another marriage with French while with Venetian there was second try etc. BUT Nemanjic dynasty (and direct Capet) did not last long anyway post it and there were only two chances after Miluten, and last king didn't marry at all... so even if they wanted, there was no much chance for further... religious differences were not something to stop it as seen in cases of Juquinta, Anna and Helen etc.... since i already touched biology to say again that mix created one of tallest and most remarkable emperors in continental history, man surely around (maybe even and whole 10 above 2 meters) - as know for times, spectacular even for nobility ...it seems that it had material as not only Nemanio was considered tall, but also it think Enrico was for time, not to mention eventual French main royal line etc.

btw, doesn't mean that we accepted theory about her direct origin, just giving thigs we discussed and how they perfectly fit, from political climate, French avoidance of confronting us, to ties, even things i just mentioned. While proof would be lovely, it is not even point, point is more that what we all think we know might be very different than what it was, while i think all historians from east europe to US agree that in our story "there are many holes" and enigmas and that our involvement in events could have been greater but is undocumented.... btw, always ask if you want something on it meaning whole "trio fantasticus" ), now when things became much clearer. Question is did we, Venice and France copy any of and why i intentionally mentioned myth Nemanides had as well, about Roman origin, Licinius etc etc. so maybe just we "poisoned them" or French (of course already having own myths so just joked) just said "look, look, this Rascians and Vinegians think similar" etc etc....

i think it is all i have to add, but lovely and super interesting subject for those liking, really glad i have something to add... always join if forum around

[Ale]

of course "Juquntas" (how could i typo you baby)) husband was catholic, forgot while saying, but unimportant....

already touched before but since i'm now close with themes - must say, if we look at it as individual and relations puzzle and forget narratives, that HIM is not clear to me in one aspect, and fell on my mind while we talk Charles and Louis and their families. So Dushan, clearly ambitious man, clearly interested in own legacy, aware of harsh times (even raging plague)) and dangers to kids etc. etc. so basically caring about own dynasty and himself - but just one, "weak" son, i say maybe even just one kid, so huge contrast to ambitious Charles for example ; ....while i can understand his son, not so ambitious nor self-loving etc. or despot Stefan as his time was maybe of some great pessimism, confirmed even by black armor on us so some avoidance of family etc. for example. But Dushan is not so clear to me in that sense, he surely felt power and ambition..... not that i blame HIM and it just tells that he wasn't man we think he was (or just bad in bed)) nor so fanatical and self-importance and female role advocate or similar, strangely many things in his story point to not so authoritarian and "imperial" figure.... from start when (story says) "he was even thinking, despite being so strong, to even turn himslef to Dechanski but advisers told him to resist" (story but is story) to later years and family etc. so enigmatic in that sense, maybe even really some "modernist" in every sense. Some speculate, to return to kids, that his wife Jelena (Bulgar) "denied him" and also disliked kids and carrying (or maybe he was not good in bed again as unique figure) but in thatcase don't see why would not he remarry easily and make more princess as was needed in uncertain time etc etc.... sowe don't know but again one son for such figure etc... again not blaming him, obviously maybe not into family things but "importance" if you get me.... great figure, whatever and knowing Petratrca is enough for some respect (while i AM more Dante fan, due to his political writing and brains and knowing many things, so he knew "on which side Miluten was" even then, many today don't know)

to return lastly to kids - guess that in that line of 3 "childless" rulers i mentioned economical situation wasn't factor ....also was thinking about French wives, such heroines must be as their sons died so much around but French again and again "remained great power"

[Ale]

finally went through whole Charles page, not only page but all links and similar "detours" i found interesting to look at.... Charles today most known as king of Albania

undoubted main figure of some decades, putting st Louis in deep, deep shadow... and not only his decades but much wider time spreading "as his legacy" all up to mid-XIV for us. Maybe not so humble and too ambitious to say, but our rulers until 1355 were true continuity of his ambition for some time, to put it this way... btw, wasn't so ilogical acting nor greed in either case in "trio" as actually every player in some events spaning several centuries but esp. marked by Constant action and fall, gained much in not so material way.... OK maybe was greed in case of France as they were already powerful with vast lands around Paris but jokes aside it with all events, even if messy and chaotic realized "old ambition" (so nice article mentioned thathe was first Charlie after Charlie) and "second fall of Rome", i'm putting it poetically and not so big French gains since Charlemagne etc. Vinegia, forget materials again, gained final status and gradual growth as well as we i.e. Rascia which subsequently became (from country even in shadow of Dioclea)) kingdom and even power, regional but as seen French opened even Italy to our rulers and possibly directly tied with Capetian house and so on.... so repeated tries to stop Byzant reamergence are not ilogical in that trio (and for tiny example Venice didn't award citizenship for no reason)) but we talked it enough just want lovers to realize that much more than greed was some motivation in all 3, however might be that ideas are centuries long as talked

back to Charles, detail i liked and hats off for including... had good nose, actually not good nose it is some knowledge but often make some statements "on nose"... longish article avoids mentioning anybad relations between brothers but it has thattiny cute detail how "Louis practically sent Charles back to France" before Jerusalem visit as "Charles was gambling while Louis mourned (third) brothers death" etc ...like the moment in what i called "not perfect relations".... hope Louis illnes and death in Tunis were not caused by Charles sword ...not going too far, just small example of characters through "stories" and that "unperfect" was my proper gut choice of words.... i like, unrelated to all that, description of "gamble", generally it was for all 3 - France is France, Venice disapeared from the face of earth, and look at us now

nice subject, like it very much, hopeful always someone else as well, so i insist so much in every detail and glad to share if you maybe never had deep knowledge... important is that in many theories and interpretations details fit very well, so yeah situation we had in say mid XIV is also great fit in "trio going at eachothers throats, just because Louis of Hungary was of Anjou but Dushan wasn't etc" ...and Dandolo rule fit in right about every moment, as talked... hope that i explained well in numerous posts and, who likes themes, finally can French, Serbs and Venetians worked for few centuries in some "accordance" despite clear tensions, best elegant description with fewest possible words ....so XX c considered and all, really our relations with (official) France are longest in our history, without papers but in practice.... fantasticus

not to be boring with HIM ) i now even see Dushan's eventual asking of Hasburg princess as "little game" and "tit for tat" if that is Anglo-term, not to type it wrong in this hour his actions with Bosnia and in Dalmatia, not as some real interest of his, but just to make things "harder to Louis" and many details that perfectly fit... lovely and hopefully clearer.... i say again, future centuries would bring a lot of fun with renewed "wars for Italy" in which if some visible policy line would continue, we would certainly be included even as "grey eminence" )), but that is subject for "what ifs" not my field and above history... again, hope i made some nice conclusions and no our troops in Sicily

[Ale]

to say for end also...

for those advocates of some "own policy" by our kings or who are unsure or thinking that they used situation, simply back in those days - not even today of course - it didn't work that way, while it was possible in theory... esp. not when relying in big part on mercs. Take again Miluten and imagine "he was working on his own", independently... Angevins and Byzants are preparing mutual war, actually some clashes already started, "whole continent elites are watching moves", there are talks going everywhere, German states involved, Aragon and whole Spain, papacy etc. And suddenly Miluten ta-daaa walks in (taking it from Byzant not to be mistake)) in Durazzo both want and is even crucial town for them, and all say "bah, what to do mighty Rascians took it, nothing now".... or that Thesally/Neopatras thing, already recognized sovereignty of Sicilian and Aragonese crowns for example and he just take part, "friendly wrestle" etc. and they say "what to do, Rascians". etc.

simply wouldn't work, would be reaction or something, even more wouldn't even happen without some "strong backs", some support or at least ;;; by you know who... so as small conclusion and i took example of Barbara on something else, but to say i'm always shocked by what various historians even medievalists wrote through time and even today and it wouldn't work, or is even totally wrong, not close to times and relations etc.... same is with quasi lines of codex, Peter Thomas chronicles put it "nice" - while it wasn't maybe what he thought intimately, Dushan presents to pornokratia how his actions in Byzant are "defense of faith", unsucessfully... but how could he even do it in conversation if he already some 10 years prior called it "heresy" which was serious allegation and demanding action "hello heretic, i'm defending heresy in Byzant so you should support me...." wouldn't work, if you get me - minor but one of fav personal examples of "later year twisting of facts" so wasn't there, there are other real life examples to deny it ; ...from Byzantine laws. But anyway, was time of wonders and even dead figures wrote autobiographies, lalala... really want to stress and simply say to people, surprised by educated historians - while i do agree that it was complicated time and full of puzzles and enigmas. the end, made my points and all by now know what are some personal interests so awaiting you..... principessa? (think was good thread with a lot to learn, satisfied)