Moderator: von Schweinewitz
new thing and always look at details,again if my eyes are not lying me completely
etc etc. But in some "more modern" times and more sourced, Emeric was in fact first ruler (not only Magyar i.e. Hun) that used that title at all, of all nations/tribes ;... so generally maybe indirectly he gave idea that "Serbia" should/must be kingdom, so not only negative in all, as it happened after his death etc. So fairly said and if we want to extend it again to some more ancient times - then he gave the title some prestige, based on more ancient things etc.... to sayagain, while things are pretty straightforward and clear as explainedand generally once SU I (Dandolo son) strengthened own rule (and "bastard" Dragutin de-throned him, while Miluten "restored" in some indirect way etc) i want to note, and always speek honestly, that Serbo-Hungarian coop wasn't some bad thing, that while I think that we are much older in both region and maybe history - Hungary (then) is not some totally negative image to me and honestly much better than Turkish, Byzant in times, and Bulgar overlordships etc etc. Yes, again being honest, i do think that often Hungarian (even hard as noted to use that name as we called them Magayars longer in private) historians or chronicles wrote some things trying to "give anti-Serb" tone to some our figures, often "anti-Italian" etc. but generally that Emeric title and many positives, Sigi who was not Hun at all etc. must be noted for fairness so i did etc... so i note, while clear that Venetians are that for us, someone else for someone other etc.... so, fast forward to modern times, it is almost understandable why Serbs and Italians sometimes sported some "coop" and mutual respect in modern times etc etc. Nothing is totally unrelated.... If was during 10 years of Dechanski, still youngish, so you get it, maybe explain which doesn't go as clear by my previous post... but again that is theat sense expressed on many examples - funnieat Michael 8 of Byzant writing autobiography as vampire post death - that indeed we in Europe got some years wrong and added, but hard to say, only sometimes some funny year emerge. so if it was 1319 it could be sent from exile in Constant as some "propecy" by "Dechanski" and not Miluten etc.... and he doesn't look very blind there but most likely Dushan (maybe) donated it, but minor thing.... like dear "Sharra" another cononization candidate, saying just for our future spaceships - but that "cooperation", some own "philosophy" i have since 90s, but it was different time because if we are some figuartive "banana" today, what we were then than maybe just some uneatable thing around on it, even squashed and darkened on the floor and in wars, 4-5 ...so who says that meds were worse era, at least there was some respect and deeds that pushed us above our weight if all things i spoke about are understood.... even today it is not so great, not only for us and our "sui iuris" problems, but honestly hard to say anything as whole "western world" is a bit on decline, biological problems, workforce, various "feudal like tendencies" ; etc etc. all known things so i'mnot very smart nor unique to say that etc. (not to say that we are unique even by factthat more pople leave country every year compared to other in "western world") Even then, once mighty Byzant was "weaker partner" during Miluten onwards etc etc. those are some states, with few other on continent, i'd look for best possible relations with, to say, nothing to do with own passionand themes i like, since i mentioned "philosophy" in previous post ....what is some "summarum", somehow med rulers were smarter - Dushan (for example of peak ruler not else) wasn't so frustrated after failure of that marriage with Germans, nor looked for French wife etc. he continued to write letters to Venice, gained support there, even citizenship which Ïtalian page says "was rare and hard to deserve honor for outsider",for unimportant example... so i generally lack more deeper and better ties with at least some/few countries "of our league" and some size, Greece relations are OK but even that is not place of frequent coop etc etc... indeed maybe all that social and economic questions i don't even understand makes us all uninterested for such ties and neccesserily looking towards bigger etc. So again hats off to our rulers in meds, Nemanides, when you consider all that salt on each other, almost incredible how we gained some sugar from some adressess ...people often think, "used weakness of Byzant" but actually when you look at it we were in those 150 and more years in constant troubles with actually more powerful country than Byzant, but managed... but indeed different times i just symbolically hope we, Greece and Vinegia (with Roman permit) with Hungarian AI and robots launch something in space but OK it won't be called "Enrico" for sure, maybe "Sciarra" alright far all ...BTW, generally think that last 100 years "eaten" all nice moments and thousands of years, even here on city level some do not speak about Dandola but some obscure and really why so important figurines from ww2 and similar, emperor Titus grave etc... (and our mayor is, they say, person with family house in Trieste near Vinegia, should be main figure to think about such themes)) ....i don't know why i posted this all, in moment of bore, but generally (while thanks for some help from France) what is my primar interest is medieval history esp. XII-mid XV c. and practically every small detail you maybe know if can help me or correct or simply add to any subjectm maybe something new youread or catched, as said million times... and again if I said something unprovable, wrong or unbased for any of country (mainly Italy and France i talked) my apology again but really believe in many things said 
Think my view on Colonnas, Philip IV ideas, Dandolos and how we all connected is, certainly not unique, but fresh... so generally, small repeat again, people often look at "Frnaco-Vinegian" crusade in light of mainly Byzant events, but often forget that one important side effect was what i talked about - they also sent some signal to Hungary and strengthened both our state and culture ;; ...so much funnier and more interesting but example is not most important nor something exclusive etc, just mentioning......... (glad that even small thing like new photo on wiki-page is consequence of my interest and talks))..... not important today as seen above, but think we in Europe on med subjects are far, far from finished and clear, lots to discuss and even add, correct or research ; so legit question is "who the hell is now Fante"? important for political history again) that his personal page has it all "covered", but is very interesting for us and eventual Miluten's origin......... so again, probably most "revolutionary" but i think sadly unprovable so how to say it ever in serious work, is that theory of "direct Capet" (of course then considered "just" female line) and many things so beautifully fit. Again i don't see why would someone who is from "Baldwins line" or some Hungarian settled family or even from Charles many relatives (Louis IX brother again) be (talking Miluten again) so involved and, even without papers to back all, in almost every move of not only Venice, but also French (quasi guelph) forces and also Cangrande as said... why would be same man "call Clement into help" during clash with brother etc. and why would Venice repeatedly make laws against him, which is rare example.... so any theory is not based just on similarites with Louis behavior, but also why so chirurgical moves that could be followed etc.
(so twice in history France enlarged us) but hey, for medievalists is interesting subject who Miluten was really and why brother (at first) gave him throne without violence, why suddenly something like civil war rages in Hungary and Capets are strengthened there, frustrating our rulers to extent that Miluten's line think "they should have primate" (or they should be primates, what's wording?).... btw, i also understand some Italian sensibilites of the times and is hard to judge Giacomo "Sara Columna" as he turned to "bloody France" in moments ...but unimportant and is old joke if you don't know all traditional sensibilites of Europe.... and, unlike us, France is now republic (even islamic haha, pardon) unrelated to any monarchies of the past and they would rather ruin all that cities that tie them with the past If possible, modern engineering makes wonders, ship at least Carcassonne here, look at us, having nothing of kind Petrarca was smarter, he used falsificated money in Avignon and Venice when it was alright to do so ) .....must say again since mentioned, probably one of easiest things to totally miss is that Avignon was "move made by us" (among others) initially, only visible after properly understanding Colonna motives and that Philip was tutored by one etc. Really is funny how i fell into trap of "our animosity" (quasi Albanian moves of both Miluten and HIM etc) but surely i now matured on subject and this is my final (and finally closest to truth) thread on it all, so Iwant people to think about it in proper way and not (even if unimportant today) live on lies, but now officially finished... the end, my Latin (heretical) roses ...bravo Eco, doctor indeed for (without saying clearly) knowing about our role seriously when talking about Italian events, it is even stronger maybe.... so think, while sadly original authors from long gone times (except Kesar if he is Italian at all, maybe our guy) rarely had stories and jokes about Italian figures, my addition and Dante trying to use false money goes along good for one episode ...same is with our figures, always some comical sense - but except that do take my words seriously, scientifically and truthfully if you never heard any of that ties, known only for hardcore medievalists like Eco, mad poets like Gabriele and obscure Roman families in dark kelias, like Columnas ) maybe such humor and "north Italian" satire is not even known to newer generations there but again no lies nor jokes from me on subjects it is history as it happened and believe me it was us involved in all that, my serenissima, and not laughing at all for French trying to touch you )... the end, but just to mention what is source of some satirical stance, their comics maybe...... but even without it, meds lines and "serious historians" are sometimes so funnywithout trying to be - so how to keep serious face when you find "years after death Michael wrote autobiography" in serious books.... Miluten did not kill him btw, died in prison ; also not me to be one adding to "horrible person who blinded own son and slept with kids" both lies i'd say on intelligent person for times, want my Italian serenissime to know, above all else but practically yes, in some sense step back... ....but anyway, was on something else, while even here as man, honestly liking female beauty, hinestly say that I don't have some clear opinion what is "more favorable" for average (even poor in global scale) man like me. Considering "biological crisis" I am one not blaming women at all nor chagnes in lifestyle, as indeed many males decide to not live family life, do not have kids, plus (big change from previous times) poorer people properly decided not to have kids or big families like was case before, finally started to think about "not being able to give proper life to kids" etc etc. that also quasi legendary line dates back to ancient Sparta, some king really don't know talking from head or maybe omni-present and legendary (like Servius) "Lycurg" -os replied that Sparta and its status "is best preserved by Spartans being poor and not desiring to have more their fellow citizens" ; - that mainly poor (while true compared to previous eras what was my point) decide to live childless or with less kids ; ....generally no rule, even those having stable jobs, enough material abilities decide to be so, hidding behind "not good" ; ....so no rule there so i BTW remebered from head those lines attributed to actually kings of old times not "proleteriat" or similar ....but honestly, both Rome and Sparta were sh*t, and too liberal sexually and created just a lot of problems to this beautiful, spece destined humanity..... ...btw, nothing to say to meds leaders, they took a lot of money they did not deserve but "krk!" heads fell ...but even that is honestly myth, "command from first lines" and so on, some yes some no, George was mostly counting behind ), some sultans and Euro kings fatly behind first line nor we all were exactly defended by "our guys" always as mercs were widely used and so on, so on some fileds (not that)) there was some "French Templar bastard" against "our good hero French" sometimes...... it was one Dandolo who i think changed usual mercs for "military draft", iirc is btw ex-waterpolo player, even one who was once maybe baest in the world in his sport.... resepect for that, fair to say... funny part is that he is involved in ww2 figurines, he was also involved in recent "controversy" regarding new central bus station here (for national and international maybe lines, not city bus) and how initially name was writen in latin letters, so he urged it to be changed in kirilineko and only english and funny things like that ) ....despite obvious opinion of what we have to do with it and that region, I remind all that exactly Serbian is one of (facultative i.e. by choice) recognized official languages in ex-Zululands i.e. South Africa... talked subject since Brit empire we had some emigration and presence there so language gained even status... can't say we were included in wars against Zulus or Dutch/Boers but who knows ...all said for fun and as purely pub themes ; as for latinic letters, uh-oh - the Turks known for stealing both lands from Greeks (not to say Romeans) and ones once using Arabic culture and heritage for centuries, did not make any drama about Latin letters use sapienti sat. that said i absolutely support and love whole Italy, as law and as said.... be greeted and as said, if any interest to exchange any opinion or new fact on many mentioned things, welcome to me - things of no importance but personal pleasure ; Petrarca and citizenship to our king etc etc. but who in the world knows that... but small known intermezzo from this medievalist.... wish was there at least in one battle with this playing for me and some unavoidable wine.... ....in political sense though we of course did not abandon idea of regianing "Serbica" (Sofia) and renaming it back, so we are not in particular hurry to move Miluten yet seriosly, important to mention as fun fact for example to younger Croats if interested, sometimes feel that even (for example) Brits know of have idea about that more than some speaking same language, so history is fun.... ...repeat, this is both "diplomatically composed", truthful to extent (but why would we trust Constantine as his words being "facts" completely as he liked Stefan etc) and too me maybe most important of all - very enigmatic and in detective way (not exactly Agatha but close)) writen article so on scale from 1 to 10 some 7 ) ....why enigmatic and nice, as it indirectly trying to say few important things... that that area between modern Serbia nad Bulgaria was "disputed and fluid" that old Serbs indeed used bloody Latin words like true cornered Roman legions and that some our scholars had effect of spreading it wider "like Latin literarute in the west, we did it in other areas" etc. Not purely Serb thing, not purely Bulgar but indeed Serb name and toponyms more fit in some old Roman words etc etc. without any needless controversy here, so Eng gave it "all clear" touched Este possesions and attacked Stefan's forts, just BTW said to mention why story in his "sources" is incomplete as we are talking of much more continentaly involved person than Bulgarian rulers ever were in last 500 years then, so he couldn't comprehend completely all Serb factions and ties ...but without few mistakes, generally good one for other things mentioned and giving reader clear suspension and enigma, but touching clearly that ancient things and "Serb theories" but who knows, in this way only good for some drama flik to conquer "Anglo Sexon" markets with good taste for it ) ...hope yu make any conclusions but again, short but very good article, touching many things but also that i talked just on surface as things we talked about are from 1000 years before and dragged along.... - never used pure fiction and probably heard story that (very drunk)) Vukashin survived battle and threw few lines on it, for example that's fact. ...just demonstration that there was no fiction in story and that man and court where Konst. died, was in some "old debt" to George "golden fork".... mentioning Connery and his other roles, generally "golden fork" sounds like good villain from 007 series and did I tell that 007 was our guy blah blah ...sold to Sexons, but generally and excuse my small wits, was serious how you look at details and connect them on any on first sight unvisible story without much fiction at all. think enough from me while active, as always something i honestly think valuable and for knowlwdge expanding he was recepient of "prestigeous award" in Italian eyes, rarely awarded citizenship to non-Italian ; and one guy who surely shaken some roots of both western and eastern monasticism and religion by daring actions and attack on churches, for example... conquest unimportant and wouldn't surely last forever ; ....emissary of powerful papacy came to him talked to him and couldn't publicly say anything against him, so extraordinary figure for small tribe - and last by not least, and why archeological part was important,confirmed that he was among tallest European rulers of times and history, so figure frm fairytales indeed generally subject of his and Miluten's knowledge and ties is interesting, why not continentally while subject of some origins super interesting.... gnerally on wide range of subjects must say that on English language pages found some truthful and honest things, and generally even respect... really Bulgarian capital (while super story of old name)) and any part of Greece, Macedon or what to us unimportantand if important it is one of countries we have one of better relations generally ; so take it as science what it is... probably that much for now, while i have until mid week etc. In fact (as rankings mentioned history as well) for its size and population most objectively and when you really know details and not engaged in "pamphletism" Serbia is country of unproportionally (for again size) "big" historical footprint and influence, things it took part in and spread around no argument and our med ties just approve ;...but anyway, even without it, subjects are fun... it is ot our fault that once tich and visited libraries were ruined, many paintings as well etc etc. and (for example) rich library of our monastery 100m from "holy sepulture" in Jerusalem finished in Vienna, Moscow or Kiev... or Kiwi (nothing bad in word and it is our word, Latin as well, while using other is free choice if you want to make "message") maybe not in line with city of the time (which was also relatively small) but point is that never realized and both we and French decided to first "punch Austrians i.e. Habsburgs" and revenge both unsuccessful marriage bid for our king for Habsburg girl (who was also greatgrandchild of maybe "Capet" king so French had interest for revenge)) and not only that but also centuries of rivalry between French lines and Hansburgs, even without us so French were were weaker side..... both our "important" kings were in Paris, knew Paris, so both Milan (while sleeping with Churchil's mother is success, he could realistically learn more there)) and of course so called "Pierre", Peter who arguably even took part in defense of Paris in 1870s etc... I think that inability to recognize some nice moment is reflected as deep and as wide that I'm 110% sure that even on small jobs better candidates for place are often rejected and worse taken and things like that ; ...really that much, our things to us, but if you have some meds stories, even ancient we maybe do not know or from dif angle, very welcome and some objective, not subjective talk in any way ithink with "we had St Louis daughter" wins for now (as theory, supported as fiction by few French historians) and so on.... but ones that our higher class was in Greece, descendent from Felix legion or similar not bad... other things youmaybe heard for first time are not theories, just known before for experts, so Andrea-Petrarca-Dushan trio, Colonnas and Contis with us, Miluten arresting Michael Paleolog maybe at Kavala etc etc. etc etc. And always mind i'm not expert nor huge private lover of modern history, just knowledge geos by itself... Sigismund gave cities (except George who had to return as being Venetian spy)) to really being on same side "in Colonna camp" often (and spiritual franciscans) etc etc. Sexons (not those ones we usually mean)) in mines and communities that often did hard job for Georges profit etc. Hey, Germans were ready to crush half of Czechland and Poland maybe - but not us at all, Teutons even served as robots ; ...historical truth. Later, mentioned Orthelius was German in some origin (not distant), Habsburgs really favored us, enabled "krajinas" more or less, but even in Trieste example, while Italians worked on our "palaces and institutions" it was meeting with Mother Theresa who ordered that "Serbs must be listened, or..." and further, already had enough of typing ) but clear and fair i'd say... interesting is why then i personally (while Claudia is/was super) I'd still prefer Flavia Felix and think that joke to rename Vienna back to "Barbara Silva" is super and even Germans laugh on it etc. Both legions were related and possibly (or surely depends on historian i guess) raised by Kaius.... what do you men which Kaius, well Kaius Kesar! as we say, conqueror of Kalia and put them all in kelias ;.... while i did make reference to her ) and if you ask we were close to "royalize" two like her in meds, from I'd say maybe top German families of the times, also could be added to "renown of small tribe".... i really can't explain that moment BTW, theorized a lot, all up to Servian well and for collective "barbarians" (so Franks, all Germans, Normans who also contacted us etc) known legions and fighters stationed in lands we controlled, but maybe it was that "arrest of Boris sons" (maybe even him but hidden) that launched "Serbs" into some fame, speculation.... in a way like relatively small "Hungarians" were maybe famed for "Hun" name, we were maybe related to prominent legions in area maybe etc. so i think more than obvious manipulation and why important to look at other moments before saying anything or think twice.... but we i think discussed it enough, think my standpoint is valid on few ocassions and it is important if we are to understand events, not just have some chaotic stories around.... simply, we are not only talking absence, but also what i'm saying is that there was no hurdle for Sigi to simply even attack some possessions, let alone even enlarge Stefan's... if we even accept that they respected us "more" or even knew some secrets - Louis just few crowns before Sigismund had no problem to at least attack (or probe as he always retreated or just took at least what Sigi gave) much more powerful Dushan the HIM pure logic at work, no mythomania... think worth repeating in moment of mention, as well as gladly accepting any independednt thinking why (could be said) Germans and Franks etc. had some respect 500 years before while "kissed Serb (ekavian)) bitt a bit" and supported us, while 500 years fast forward it was the opposite ....funny but true. Second obvious joke is on same line "are you sure that Sigi wasn't Serb in origin?" ...and third joke is - when you consider that once when "Germany had border with Croatia and Bosnia, they attacked them" well you can't blame the Serbs, it is natural etc. but views of Stefan total absence and maybe "turning around" at Ankara are legit... actually if things like those are true i even respect them much more.... and honestly do not even like to talk XV c, nor Turks honestly, nor Bosnia nor Croats ) that much, but Stefan and George deserve special magnifying glass just for reasons mentioned, as some think that we "disappeared" from map earlier, while there was huge and eventful 50-70 years more.... "Golden fork" is huge subject for film .........btw, also seen that Wiki page on Sigi states (quasi) how he is recently "renewly interesting for modern talks on themes in central Europe" etc etc. don't consider much myself "central Europists" as we are more "land of Rome" and somehow more similar - but glad i could add something fresh on subjects - so definitevely good old Sigi chopped few heads but in the same time good character for us, gave capital, gave respect and asked in situations surely better than also old pals Habsburgs in 1914 (but if Elisabeth "Claudia" Hanbsy survived and became our queen before Hungarian, who knows, who knows.......)) ...always add if know, really tried my all in some "give something new on old themes" approach, so hopefully enriched every reader.... in some way it is point in us researchers of older themes, to surprise and give hidden details.... but also (Huns maybe know, schoolars certainly) there are things like Eugene and his ilk trying to lead some "new defense" including that one bishop who was in defense of then Hungarian held Belgrade was Eugene's man of confidence (and hence anti-Colonna) and things like that, maybe too deep for forums like these.... so might be that George and his behavior, Venetian agent aside ), might be or should be looked through that prism as well, if we accept that we almost never went far differently than "Colonna stand" and opposed or ignored Roman factions almost as they did.... even regardless of Conti stand, so important to mention that one our faction actually on events around Emeric, Dandolo rise and our kingdom declaration, directly opposed Conti pope ("Not-guilty 3")) if known. While i postulate that many times Contis found some mutual line against (maybe non-Roman i.e. Venetian Orsini), there were insatnces of opposite - anyway, George times could be one moment when Colonnas aagain dominated "our discourse" (like Miluten, like Dushan)... maybe i doubt, but really hope you understand alland how we can look at George as well.... so more pro-papal Albans even in moment supported some action, some Hungarians but George had "double minds" because Colonnas just again got into trouble with "Rome" in about years of our fall.... etc. and greeting Barbarossa ) etc... so generally i see in it another tie and possible speculation of our nobility image among Greeks and Italians, but needless to repeat 1000 times, absolved almost. among Roman nobility, secular but also clergy to extent... interesting terminology and yes it is in a way connected with what you think but not as explicit way, so word is going about some mistersses (kurvokratia)). However, same family which dominated much of Roman life in some times before we gained prominence also is related to some reforms, possibly idea of clerical celibacy and similar so changed image of earlier times in more moral way... also they launched reforms in strengthening role of popes/clerics maybe some more "papokesarism" idea, and also something that Innocent III sported - papal laws etc. etc. went to far from joke and it is becoming boring but remember term "pornokratia" ) ...AND again those are not Colonnas at all, who were both more secular and pro-imperial or similar, even connected to idea of some ancient philosophy or art forms... but not naked things ) so merely wanted to tell as interesting story, while it is not same family again if you get this one as well ; even more due to imperial cities, forts etc. clear thing. You get my meaning behind this.... also people are often not able to distinguish "true modern eyes" that nobility and people were different things and that was no source of "mass communication" or info, so any press, media, TV, radio or internet only rulers get some messengers and similar... so more than expected clashes already starting in Hungary, Peter the Kermit had to fight for Singidunum and Tuarunum (so Belgrade area) maybe siege and fight true like in old times when Felix operated Godfrey was maybe surrounded in one moment by some "Serbs" (but he killed them) and similar shocks and generally comical stories.... equally true is that some Serb ruler named Bodin (sounds equally Slavic like Baldovin and Branus we had)) greeted them, "confirmed all ties" (so our rulers knew about it) even words "brotherly" was used by some crusader chroniclers etc. Must understand the locals it was like "WTF? barbarians all around out of nowhere" and impression that they are here for them.... ......really thought much about Claudia recently, reminding myself even.... one of first in "cisalpine Kaul", around Lutetia (Paris), around Alesia, around Belkia, one of only in Britain etc. - but Claudiareally found happines and long settled here, near me where she stayed for years........ bravo, smart one (loved her) Probably most notable story and a lot, really many events there, beside story of Boris clash in our history before rise of Nemanides, so who likes hope likes ) i.e. smart to extent as he stood idle few times when escpected to act allowing Norman victory twice etc. Really nice stories and tells a lot about some our previous history and path to strong state that later occured... (also mentiones properly his meeting with Raymond "Monocolus" of Touluse, story is preserved in French chronicles) Our "enigmatic" parts continued by it... but also shows how truly strong Nemanide state was, and situation turned, we arresting Byzantine emperors and marching with armies often in totally different way through areas... skillfully played indeed. Again, hope you like as it is on of best stories of our pre-Nemanjich times, shows that something bigger was in the making, and if you like hope you want more always join, really would like to hear what you like from era oh, Norman wives such bombs After death of king Bodin she involved herself in politics and Serb "civil war" on behalf of her underage sons and pretendents etc. using methods like "slow-working poison" on other Serb prince (which did not work and he survived), urged military captains to behead some others "in front of Ragusa walls", and using agents to allegedly "castrate and blind" third player in stories, so lovely... but of course not all were like that, at least we and Englisg had many ; but those stories about powerful Norman princesses almost in line... but she was still our queen )... luckily Anna and Helen were nothing like that.... but Jaquinta fire. so yes, while i and most always concentrate mostly on Nemanide Serbia, some great stories before (and after as mentioned)... so i did not post Matilda (nor Philip) clip for no reason and Serbo-Norman coop was seemingly deep and productive & we should not ignore that period if lovers of older themes ....on that to say, while his fathers name (which was later name of one our youngest prince which did not mature due to Jaki finishing in jail) indeed sounds more "Lombard" it is often stated that they were "Normans", but isay million times that names per se are "wrong way" in some ethnicity distinction way and not should be proof of anything.... so southern Italy was place of great mixing and various tribes, like here, but important to note that even some clear Norman persons had even "latinized or greekezied" names even, long before our queen (was Norman Sergius etc).... so we all take it they were of Norman or half origin in our case, supported with our stand and great allieance with Normans in here times etc. in any way our beauty did not leave room nor time for any choice, smart girl ....lovely story, what else to say and even glad that we had her, almost similar like English i said - but compare how far Brits went on self promotion around the world and presenting stories cinematically and how far we.... eeee, Barbara. ...really and honestly speaking, very stretched out to even include that, personally while no "anti-Alba" bias inthatsense, just scientifically speaking.... clear lingvistical line of Illirian and modern Albanian is not 100% found, but i have no trouble in some "be nice" sense to even accept that Albans and Illirians might be related, in a way like giving "Marcus Aurelius death place" to Austrians if they want any "importance", just being nice and friendly..... lastly, simplified and shortly, as talked it is obvious that Serbo-Croat (esp. Serb ekavian again) have more same forms and words from Latin even pronouncements, directly same as Greeko-Latin.... Much more than Albanian, which i little know, but this is science... "Prokedim" you all etc. But OK, if some notion is that Serbs are more similar to Celtic and Latin caste (so conquerors) hence liguistical forms, while Albanians with some Iliirians (Dicletianus is their no trouble), it is alright interpretation to me.... nothing political there, just some notions that Alnbanians want to "gain some fame" on few pages... just do not take her as "feministic figure" and model, rather Dusciano as one ....btw, btw, little important but one of theories "regarding Normans and us" that Serbs might be some very old, "umbrella tribe" and root of word like "Suebi, Suedi etc etc" so kinds "they knew eachother fo long" some warrior elite etc. Nice like all but little important for concrete histories, which i like and is "cool" how of all tribes first strong alliance in the west (except Italians) was our and Norman.... btw, last joke on subject - unlike some other memebers of our (tribe above all although Dioclea i.e. Zeta was part of Serbia through whole Nemanide period from which they descend) royal family which she ordered beheaded or poisoned, she "castrated etc" her brother in law i.e. should be brother of her late husband well, well... great story again, already have nice scenes in head... you get it Can't say anything for sure but of course some obvious things are there, so if lover conclude yourself, other things interesting but almost none for our story..... btw, again for lovers, our kings and esp. emperor Dushan was connected with Bari in few ways, and some story is that he preffered also Normans for personal guard (allegedly often looking for very tall knights due to his size) and allegedly imperial standard bearer (of over 20-30 kgs) leading his coloumn was "Swedish", not really important for what i'm looking for but remembered story etc. ...interesting is also to extent did it carry some fame to France enabling later desire of Capet or something like official France to tie with us etc. ...could be said that western sources were often "secretive" on direct ties with us, so inability to determine Helen's origin etc ;...maybe intentionally but maybe others lied too much.... on Jaquinta, you might wonder why I ask - preparing great film hitting cinemas near you in summer of 2065 let it be another subject i.e. their origin if eventual Italian researcher or lover, so i have few questions as always ) but gave it up long time ago, but nonetheless since already talked much why not sharing for lovers of themes, maybe you like to read but company always welc great stories, hopefully liked my little detective game and any conclusions was alliance real or imagined by Byzantines and of course Jaquinta story if we guess that many of you hear it first time - i'm Serb some details are nasty but above all i see also strong female character, kinda "warrior queen" as Matilda/Maud that defended some right she to be recognized as ruler after death of king, which was indeed above rules and traditions, plus foreign... Anna D. and Helen are characters of similar type as both succeeded in intent to secure crown for sons, SU I and SU II Miluten, so it was indeed kinda some our trademark of times etc.... don't know who is current president of Normandy region (if we had proven anything about her origin but i tried few stories)) but i'll gladly call him with short question "250 meters?" ....and it also showed that indeed huge male like HIM could have been more gentle to own relatives that one small pale Norman princess, a female ...but like her, as Serb say Jaquinta was cute ) and some figure with vision ) ...in interesting medieval details he and his line, already governing Rascia before Bodin's death and having largely separated from Dioclea was untouched so they are not involved in any mentioned story of "beheading, poisoning and castration etc", which was fate of other brothers and nephews of Bodin and that Petrislav... already during Bodin life Rascia continued the most energetic fight against Byzantium, Alexios intervened personally in few battles and submitted Rascian rulers. However, most likely that "Vladimir", son of other brother, was some player of Rascia, the one whome Jaquinta used "slow-working poison" on, unable to directly face him etc. etc. since Nemania (use of letter "j" was uncharacteristic for old Serbian) also line of very tall rulers start, culminating with for times indeed huge emperor HIM ;....and so on, hope i gave some understandable picture of their origin with some small mystery and how Rascia became powerful, at short moment even most powerful in SE and from which line they descend... open to questions might have had changed history more than she knows by eliminating some pretenders in interest of Rascian line ... first funny thing.... but even that aside, explain to me sounds really funny when stop for moment on unimportant line, as many times when some "linguistical propositions" are mentioned... kinda like it is from Hungarian "ur", sounds like name Vukan is from Chinese-Turkic-etc. "wu" meaning something and so on.... animalistic symbols and love much more spread even as late, even after schism even in Italy so indeed might be actually true that it is the way we read Latin Ursus, adding to fact that name was "revitalized" for kings by Dandola and later HIM for his son, but present in lower ranks wider and mostly in Serbia adding to more Italian tie than Hungarian as Croatia was directly ruled by Hungary, Bosnia etc. But it remains more or distinctively Serbian name, as was then etc. Besides, Urosh I (now talking Anna's son) and Dushan the HIM were surely more "Italian players" and lovers than directly Hungarian esp. second if you get it .....unimportant subject for much time waste, but why not using some checks again, even logic... to me, more likely from some "Urso" reading and Italian name as solution etc. ...jokes aside, gravely serious about previous paras, but generally unimportant.... one way or another, could be said that we directly opposed any "Ursini faction" as said before.... for some science and timeline, while Hungary gained some prominence later, centuries of before ties with Byzant and Italian lands should not be disregarded, Venetians that were used to "do things for us" (like freeing Bodin) and all.... but generally we all concluded that such lines regarding lingvistics are always or very often dubious, still laughing at "Serbs use Greek words bre and more from Ottoman" while in the same time more is known about some more obscure princes of no lasting importance... targeted? to mention, after looking at Wiki Eng, it seems that also thirs name for him was in circulation - so Zavida, "White Urosh" and also Stefan in some Dalmatian sources. Interesting to say the least, but that much, hope you gained another lovely story again from Norman queen, Robert Guiscard to creation of Nemanide state and dynasty ...always add, needless to repeat - yes you! .....generally it seems that some "loyalties" kept themselves for centuries back in times, so my Colonna long lasting example, could be said that also maybe our ties with Normans were "centurial" adding even more to interesting time when "official i.e. Capet" or Frankish France ) took over some possesions both in France but also areas like Sicily as known ; and so on... in that sense i think previous stories are of value for even lovers... guess it is surprise for many that actually Rascian line (with more orthodoxy in state) was the most energetic against Byzant as early, and more "Norman friendly" than some others, giving protection and army to Jaquinta's son trying to reinstall him etc.... speculation is and hence unimportant theory of many that Nemanja's father was indeed from somoene else, maybe even George of Jaki among others if we are to speculate.... he got in conflict with other brothers or half ones and they gave him small land initially, George and Jaquinta once controlled, but things turned and he become starter of most famous line etc etc. but it was republic of course so no need, if even anything about our player and heroine Jaki is 100% true ) ...all lovely, hope you like how i put it, scientifically as always for her and afterwards pointing my bloody lance with flower on top towards her, and similar....) seriously, what i like in era is exactly that to extent, that we almost faced veterans of Hastings (and maybe Stamford bridge)) just few years after, but no need to sweat as Normies did it for us, we just watched the show ....there is charm and we medieavalists know very well why loving themes, even if battle is not mentioned at all ....no sarcasm, lovely and true - we knew. Great times when fate of kingdom of England in a way, Serbian kingdom and even Byzantine empire was decided and some same people took part in it..... nothing against Sexons of course but since they have some sense of humor, think you also don't mind us just watching your guys suffer and no hard feelings.... of course no humor, grateful to A-S experts for explaining it as tactics thenand if realistic it is super that it happened on far apart corners of continent, and of course i'm glad we had some role in it ...more added to both correct myself (since nobody here talks about) but also to confirm my words thatwe knew indeed ; after reading article on Hastings of which we all knew already this or that..... nice stories. Another nice moment for history lovers, to add from our side so even on personal level Bodin maybe had some knowledge of Anglo-Saxon operating around before arrival of Guiscard and Jaquinta... mentioing Antioch as well, meeting between him and Raymond of Toulouse is in that sense also not BTW or dinneras could be said that Bodin had valuable info to Raymond, knowing personally city, fortifications and plans, so could be guessed that it is why meeting was valuable and "brotherly", it is not excluded, as any crusade that some unnamed our nobles joined etc etc. , Guiscard and Nemanja mystery all makes it super, think worth every word for true likers, comparing and giving further details... not to mention potential for great jokes even with English as "bridge" is mentioned and historical records of their activity and defeats (or our hoolies)) at Nish, Kosovo and shame at Durazzo ...but on serious details i think that much, hope added nice things ...really be cool and relaxed, for example Sexons and make our history cooler and more independent not on lies at all, but by some proper interpeatations admit that our Jaquinta is almost in rank of great Matilda, that we crushed your "veterans of Stamford bridge" (just imagine killing Norwegian king on game, who inthe world even want to fight Norwegians at all?)) even without moving our Italian ties and that Norman wives usually chosen us instead of you..... etc. and so on but generally was serious if someone younger reads.... and similar out of the mind things... of cours they were Serbs but generally unimportant, today Montenegro is not even geographically similar to Diclea nor Zeta and capitalof both was even city which is in today norther Albania, so how can we even equalize it with Montenegro as it is not today, as it is not Serbia.... but there is the point isn't it so it is funnyin some shyness but I think nobody here even care about that and their "Serb ethnicity" isn't even controversial..... what i like and whatall foreign historians mentioned is that moment - our Rascian line gave protection to Jaki's son, gave him army and reinstalled him, honorably to the max... some say he afterwards even invaded Rascia some do not say that, so did it happen but like the moment, think maximally correct from our Vukan and Marko and "White bears" ....get read yourself of small politizations, think there is not controversy there and we can all, both in region and wider (they are mad about my stories in England)) enjoy some great history we had and created, not just Rome but Rascia called quasi Serbia ...BTW, Byzantines many use when they want, when they do not they don't called - totally unimportant in discourse of Montenegro btw but saying in contrast to "Sklavinije or Sclavonie etc" called in contemporary work land of Mihailo, hence Bodin's papa, in Latin "Triballorum et Serborum regnorum" or like if i did not use corect declination but close (Byzantines often used Latin titles for works but wrote in Greek below, except Michael 8 Paleolog which was written by our agents in his blood mostly)) so kingdom of Tribalii and Serbii, but generally unimportant, I'm just lover of details and uninterested in any ethnic contests or politiztions, and of very soon great lover of Jaquinta only, even (my heart breaks) a bit forgetin Anna................ hope you get some serious and also comical parts out of this post too and some maybe even instructions to some western historians of future how we could make even more cooler and connective history and maybe more recognition for us in best intention way said, justwith intention to make any Norman wife think twice...... but do not trust me... really wanted to revolutionarize it a bit but without any lie, and whynot always some great subjects surelly there, so expect if myeye catches.... etc. But there is no problem there i honestly think and it is relaxed subject... real moment of Montenegro as subject is in modern history as mentioning, predating Serbia as independent etc etc. even boring theme...... btw, humoristically i had some nice slaps to Monetengro talkers in light way, as my last name is something they consider "of Montenegro origin" "from Marko" but i always say that moment and Marko the Serb prince "which disappeared" but whose son Urosh is etc. so i like that moment, but of little value to history just personal joke ....we don't have some preserved sources in churches and similar due to devastation, nor i ever researched in some deepness, but allegedly our line (from father line) is very old in area of place where dspot Stefan was born, some smaller town in inner Serbia and lived there in medieval times, with possible moves here and there, so hardly directly (in modern sense) from Montenegro.... but like jokes about it - so i joked how it stayed small due to many Vinegian forts, but could be added to repertoir this one also "it stayed small due to Jaquinta being queen" ...or actually as i mentioned, just like France who kept "Angevine" name under Capets etc..... you know also what is interesting in some way - some Montenegro researchers do not dislike our attitude as some others "as imperial or this or that", sometimes they dislike it for other resons in medieval discourse - as they felt that mainstream Rascia often gave little attention to those lands, concentrating more on some Macedon etc. so there is trick and twist in how people usually understand things and some dislike not "imperial attitude" of our med kings but almost oppositely - why the flik some our kings made concesions to Ragusa or similar - but really unimportant, fun as many... generally i think i corrected it well - so Bodin and Jaquinta are important moments for our history, full respect if you think that I gave some privilege to Anna and lions of Brankovich family ; - indeed 235 m (in talks but it is going down)) deserving ....not so much in modern themes myself, even XIX and i totally transcend and transform mentally in some other era when talking medieval subjects, not so much similar to national subjects, properly...... hence Ireallydo not think that moment when Jaquinta "castrated" your prince is that moment when state was created properly said it was XVIII-XIX c so i think we can relax about it.... personally, always say that in light tone think "Zeta" would be much cooler name today in some international way even, but they would always be placed among last by alphabet what is disliked i guess, instead of that "Vinegianism" but unimportant.... anf finally I say - Montenegro is out future! (lands of just some few 100,000 old members) always join some joke, what you think etc... ....you little.... not claiming anything like Dushan (is it from Montenegro?)) and direct line from Christ, but just from Mars, realistically so to say, with some fresh interpretations, connecting and detcting ; .....for small example (while did not read even close to all) until myself I did not read any work which connected almost every our crucial moment since Miluten with Dandolo dogo, never until myself read a work which connected Colonna's "saltings" with our events, rejected that HIM had the line, Miluten such sex and Stefan d-spot was ever there as he would be served "on plate" to Sigi maybe, etc etc etc. proposals to think about, but first mentioned is fact not "proposal" so generally yes, that family was certain ally of Nemanides through whole period.... it is hobby my real job is action one, i'm in constant, daily touch with foreigners (and even have licence to touch if need be)) so a bit tired of them and xenophobic (had them over the top)) and almost "professional deformation" to daily contact and comment foreign ladies - no joke but will never tell as this is not forum about personal things ) .... (that Louis IX had another daughter is not mine))...... generally like i cleared Sciarrillo "Sara" name and way to his sainthood is open, if pope took my e-mail seriously ...as said maybe sometimes, thanks for reading, always open to your story ....since this touches your interests more than mine, let it be another question as i knew it only as "fun fact" and one line if you ever read anything more, why or better asked based on what he claimed it, just fantasy based on nothing or they actually produced something like story or line? ...of course just BTW question for some principessa from there if ever read, not even much important to me.... (but totally over proportioned, it was mainly French action to end slavery there)) one during Miluten's takover of throne, 3rd during Dushan's takover and 4th, Andrea during our greatest expansion and empire proclamation.... but state of Vinegia was in huge troubles and really pushed on all fronts by Genova, Hungary and nature etc. unlike us only briefly invaded by Louis, repeat and short summary of mid XIV c if you missed.......however, one thing - blame Wiki as it has dif dates, there is date on other language pages which says that Sciarrillo died in Venice but year before Francesco took office, so absolutely not my fault they "printed" wrong dates on few places, for what it matters as subject as all - maybe only to extent did Dandolo family supported Colonna one in Italy etc. "Anna Dandolo" still remains great name for space battlecruiser, but "Jaquinta" deserves it as well, so we have really nice and diverse name candidates for galactic showdown ;..... to repeat, there was that unimportant and btw question if you read ever some text, had few of them, mostly found some answers, on this will not search much so amybe you heard.... or to call Alessandra, often on Ital state TV that much.
