what to copy to the new forum?

[lvjtn]

first of all, i strongly recommend waiting for active jp members to join in order to let everybody decide what s/he thinks is important to copy from his/her threads and posts, so these items and any further posts are only suggestions. i ask everybody to not copy somebody else's thread without the explicit approval of the original poster. the important threads written by inactive members are other stories, maybe the admins can post them later noticing the original author

i will update this first post time to time when something will be copied or a new thread will be suggested

1. documentation

a) opengen suggested readings by Luis, though it should be updated (e.g. links to the docs on the open-general.com )

b) jp's topic: faq and howto... by several posters ( jp's faq and howto... with opengen )

i have selected and copied the useful and still valid entries from the first four pages and added them to the faq section of our site, so my proposal is asking Dragoş, our new documentation expert to select (and update, if necessary) the useful posts from page5-page8, and we should open only a fresh thread for the questions, and eventually all answers would be copied to the faq section of our website and Luis can copy the most important to his site too. i'm working on a good search form of the faq entries copied to our site. the longer explanations can be added as manuals /howtos on our site

EDIT: saved and cleaned html source of the page5-page8 too, i can send them to Dragoş / Chris or anybody else who is interested in selecting the useful content, i also opened a thread here for the new questions

c) manuals, tutorials and things like that...: the related jp forum by several posters

imo it would be enough to add the og school in english to on our site and let this thread to sink on jp

d) panzer general 2 faq and important links: the related jp forum

yes, it's about pg2, but there are several things which are still valids (like gaining exp, leader promotion), maybe the useful parts should be selected and saved as faq

e) pg2 essential readings

same as before. i can remove the ez codes easily if it helps

i saved all these pages, just in case, and i also recommend to do the same for other "candidates". the "save as..." from the browser is enough, i can write scripts to clean the html mess. just don't forget to save ALL pages of a thread. and no, 100+ pages of the bug report threads shouldn't be saved

[lvjtn]

2. design (map, icon, sound, efile, campaign, gui, etc. making)

a) campaign making for pg2 by pzm (the related jp forum)

it should be updated to opengen (Dragoş, Chris, see, there are so many docs what you can work on ), and also can be added to the manuals/howto section of the opengen site

b) <JP's topic: icon requests> by several posters (JP's icon requests).

while this thread seems to be dead, now we got Juankar's latest inf and cold war vehicles templates, what i will add to the repo, so maybe talented icon makers can actually complete a few of the requests. so maybe someone can collect the valid requests eventually

EDIT: Clemens started to copy the relevant posts. See viewtopic.php?f=7&t=136

c) <JP's topic: campaigns in the making>] maintained by Jurgen ( JP's campaigns in the making).

just in case you find it useful and Jurgen still has the time to update the list regularly

EDIT: Jurgen opened a new thread for the current plans. See viewtopic.php?f=7&t=134

***

of course, these are only my proposals, nothing is mandatory

***
I've edited a bit the "struk" items moving the link to JP's after the text, and also added link to the new topic. Hope everybody would agree this way is easier to check which items are unassigned yet

[Wonderdoctor]

c) campaigns in the making maintained by Jurgen

just in case you find it useful and Jurgen still has the time to update the list regularly

of course, these are only my proposals, nothing is mandatory

I'll start the topic from scratch. Not sure if all those dreams mentioned before are still alive.

[randowe]

b) icon requests by several posters

while this thread seems to be dead, now we got Juankar's latest inf and cold war vehicles templates, what i will add to the repo, so maybe talented icon makers can actually complete a few of the requests. so maybe someone can collect the valid requests eventually

I can copy the icon requests

[mythos]

a) opengen suggested readings by Luis, though it should be updated (e.g. links to the docs on the open-general.com )

I will look into it, but no promises at the moment.
(incomplete ? ) back up list:
- documentation and links
- Campaigns: PG2 scenario&campaign design - Essential Reading
- PG2 / OG differences

b) faq and howto... with opengen by several posters

i have selected and copied the useful and still valid entries from the first four pages and added them to the faq section of our site, so my proposal is asking Dragoş, our new documentation expert to select (and update, if necessary) the useful posts from page5-page8, and we should open only a fresh thread for the questions, and eventually all answers would be copied to the faq section of our website and Luis can copy the most important to his site too. i'm working on a good search form of the faq entries copied to our site. the longer explanations can be added as manuals /howtos on our site

I recommend still having a full-grown forum topic about it. This makes it easier to discuss things and to give more info in general - by, for example, sorting the thread.
My idea is to create a topic with some 20 [place holder] postings, and a link section in the starting post. So, for example, someone asks about Support Fire, s/he could be send to the posting which deals with SF and Single Fire Support, Artillery+AD+Ship classes and indirect Fire.
Imho, the new thread should collect
- FAQ and How to ... with OpenGen
- and there were tons of questions and answers in the Questions & Bugs thread, which are potentially missing elsewhere

That's a job to my liking.

d) panzer general 2 faq and important links

yes, it's about pg2, but there are several things which are still valids (like gaining exp, leader promotion), maybe the useful parts should be selected and saved as faq

e) pg2 essential readings

same as before. i can remove the ez codes easily if it helps

Can be merged with point b) above, after all, these are FAQs (maybe not "frequent" but still)
And yes please: cleaning deprecated code would help a lot

[lvjtn]

- documentation and links
- Campaigns: PG2 scenario&campaign design - Essential Reading
- PG2 / OG differences

both (faq, campaign design) threads are already on the list

I recommend still having a full-grown forum topic about it [=faq]. This makes it easier to discuss things and to give more info in general - by, for example, sorting the thread.

of course we should have a NEW faq thread for the NEW questions, but the right place to store the already existing, verified faq (or longer howto/manual) entries is our website, where we use tags, and i can eventually add a full text search. forum is not the right place to store faq (just think about maintaining/updating difficulties)

you can contact with Dragoş how to share this task (or even reading the 100+ pages of the old "questions and bugs" thread), i would appreciate any saved, VERIFIED new faq / howto entry what i can add to our website, no matter who send it to me

[mythos]

I recommend still having a full-grown forum topic about it [=faq]. This makes it easier to discuss things and to give more info in general - by, for example, sorting the thread.

of course we should have a NEW faq thread for the NEW questions, but the right place to store the already existing, verified faq (or longer howto/manual) entries is our website, where we use tags, and i can eventually add a full text search. forum is not the right place to store faq (just think about maintaining/updating difficulties)

I disagree, website and forum are both the "correct" place for existing info.
First things first: i'm not in the mood of arguing (argue as in "fight/dispute/quarrel" ). My background is wiki/forum documentarist and as such i naturally favour the added possibilities of them, but if the split of website:forum is generally preferred, then i join the chorus. However, i first need to throw a couple of things into the room, which should be considered before a final decision.


1) the forum has [write/comment] and [ quote] functions, simplifying communication.

2) the website doesn't have a [write/comment] function.
Being on website but having a question about X means that you need to get the text of X, go to the forum and ask on the forum anyway.

3) sources of info are split.
If you have a question about X, Y and Z, but X is on website while Y and Z are on forum, then you need to work with 2 different sources.
Not only you = the person asking needs to work with 2 different sources, but the person answering needs to do that too.

=> there might be more, and the above might lead to other, however those 3 are the bigger points imho
=> A forum thread can be made up of a link collection (start post), which allows navigating to different posts, which then can be quoted respectively refered to.
Of course, website entries have tags for navigation, and text can be copied/linked to tell what you are refering to or asking about.
Point is, a forum fulfills these jobs more conveniently, and you need the forum for communication anyway (except a comment function gets implemented on the website itself).

4) maintaining/updating
Website = 1 person.
Forum = at least 2 people - the thread starter and any Admin (and any Moderator + Global Moderator, if appicable). Thus, if thread starter is absent, there are still people able to maintain the thread.
It would also be possible to create a FAQ subforum (About the Game -> Open General -> FAQ) which is moderated by Documentarist(s) (and then still by Admins + Mods). Thus theoretically and practically, the forum has more personnel.
But that's just my i understand that Admins + Mods have other tasks and a real life.


Regarding OG (respectively JP's), my understanding so far was
- website = short FAQ entries
- forum = detailed explanation of FAQ entries + questions and answers, general discussion, as well as long FAQs/Guides
allowing for a co-existence, but more importantly creating a synergy, of both. As such i am by the push to externalize the forum to the website (see the question "please specify" below).
From my experience, splitting is usally only sensible if there is a specific reason to do it (i.e. [forum = more people read it -> no spoilers], while [wiki = fewer people read it -> spoilers included, spoilers can be hidden by formatting] ), otherwise it just confuses and makes work unnecessary difficult.

you can contact with Dragoş how to share this task (or even reading the 100+ pages of the old "questions and bugs" thread), i would appreciate any saved, VERIFIED new faq / howto entry what i can add to our website, no matter who send it to me

So, i wasn't confused yesterday ? Then i'm confused now
I thought the request in the other thread had something to do with writing FAQs (i.e. updating [OG School] pdf's or [How To's] like Campaign Creation), while here it was a general request to backup old forum threads.
I'll contact Dragoş - 4 eyes see more than 2 and such, and as said i like this kind of job.

Just, please specify:
- what kind of data do you want transfered to the website ?
- what kind of data shall be copied to the new forum ?
- is there any formatting you need or prefer for website entries ?

[lvjtn]

sorry, i've got a few time now, so i just summarize:

a forum is a terrible place for faq: it's unsearchable (please, send me the link pointing to the post on jp forums about how to set the linux wine regedit in order to run the sdl2 exe within seconds. mission impossible), uncategorized (no tags), unchecked (anybody can write anything, sometimes misleading and only partially true posts), mostly outdated (not easy/impossible to keep uptodate), full of irrelevant chit-chat, etc. i know this very well, because i copied the first four pages of the old jp's opengen faq thread, and tried to clean it form the junk, obsolete, false, irrelevant posts, it was quite demanding job, so these are the reasons why i think a community deserves something better then faq threads on a forum

so what we'd like to do is exactly the same what Luis and i randomly did: collecting the useful posts form the forums, fixing /updating them, adding some screenshots, and putting on the new site and/or Luis' site, in an ordered fashion (see the combat formulas or cfg explanations on Luis' site). as i said, i can write a full text search modul for faq (howtos are in pdf, so they will be ignored, but they are longer, and their titles should tell everything about them), i hoped i explained it in the other thread, sorry if i failed to do it correctly

people who want to learn about the game will visit Luis' site and/or the official website, and they rarely will read hundreds of pages of a forum thread for an answer which might be obsolete, false, misleading

a faq thread is good to collect and answer the new questions. and an "essential readings" closed thread here should have the collected links pointing to the hopefully organized / verified documentation on open-general.com and Luis' site. what would be good to prevent: several separated threads with full of partially useful information instead of a centralized, checked, regularly maintained documentation page

[mythos]

after 20 minutes of writing something i realized that i should go back to the beginning:
As said, i'm uninterested in arguing - i can compromise, and since you prefer to compress everything to the website...

please specify:
- what kind of data shall be copied to the new forum ?
- what kind of data shall be copied to the website ?
- is there a formatting which you prefer for website entries - and how shall they be send to you ?

[lvjtn]

please specify:
- what kind of data shall be copied to the new forum ?
- what kind of data shall be copied to the website ?
- is there a formatting which you prefer for website entries - and how shall they be send to you ?

all pg2 and og related documentation (readme, manual, faq, etc.) threads mentioned in this thread are full of gold, covered by lots of dirt, imo. i absolutely trust the veterans like you to know how to find the gold but if i should summarize it, the goal would be collecting any useful (= what you think can help the beginners or other special audience in playing /designing), valid (= still works with the latest opengen, suite or other related tools) intels, hints, explanations, descriptions. yes, this "gold digging" usually means modifying the original texts (updating the obsolete parts, removing the irrelevant parts, fixing the language, etc.)

sometimes (often) a screenshot would make easier to understand anything, so i always recommend to add screenshots to any kind of documentation

the shorter, easier tips (like "can i have more than 15 leaders?" or "where can i change the resolution?") can be added as faqs, the longer ones (like "how to create a new map/scenario/icon/campaign?") can be howtos/manuals

the preffered format is formatted txt (using something unique for bold, italics, underline, etc. texts), clean html (the least elements, the better) or a formatted doc, docx, rtf, odt. unsupported formats are anything what can't be edited easily, like pdf, ps. preferred formats for screenshots is 24/8-bit png (jpg/gif is also acceptable if it already exists, but not preferred)

edit: maybe it would be better to openly coordinate this "documentation saving" project to avoid more persons working on the same thread

[lvjtn]

Luis and i uppdated the first two posts

as i see, og forum (except the updated essential readings thread) and designers' corner are more or less fine, but lots of important efiles are still missing ( Lupo, Matt, Matze, Adler, etc.). there are "abandoned" efiles (like Clu, OLGWW2 + OLGCW, Composite), there are unofficial efiles (like Gustlik's efile). what can we do with them?

[randowe]

I can ask Clu in the Rayydar's Forum if he is interested in opening a thread about his efile here. I wanted to contact him anyway because of the map numbers he has still booked and which i could maybe take over in order to shorten the list of reserved map numbers.

[lvjtn]

I can ask Clu in the Rayydar's Forum if he is interested in opening a thread about his efile here.

great, thanks!

the next important chapter is the cc thread. there are 11 finished cc reports not added to the scroll and honor, 10 of them belong to the unarchived cc75. i'd be soooo happy if Jan (pzm) joined us and take the responsibility for the ccs (even if no new ccs will be announced for a while)

i strongly recommend everybody saving those threads from the jp's forums what you think to be important, as nobody knows how long these forums will be available, hopefully till the next paying period (in may 2020, i guess), but there is no guarantee that the spams won't burry down everything eventually, if pzm gave up the moderation

[Parabellum]

csaba, just for my understanding: do you recommend us to copy the unarchived CC75 in the new forum? Each his own run?

[lvjtn]

csaba, just for my understanding: do you recommend us to copy the unarchived CC75 in the new forum? Each his own run?

the announcement is copied, but the other threads? i have no idea what to do, let's hope Jan will join and tells what he prefers. just in case, i saved the 11 finished threads, and i'll save the unfinished threads too. maybe just the final aars should be copied into one post nevermind, what i recommend is saving any contents with your browser, because nobody knows how long these materials will be available. hopefully for 5-6 months, but there is no guarantee

otoh, if somebody wants to copy his current /finished cc thread, i don't see any reason why he shouldn't

[mythos]

Something different:
Would it be possible to unlock the CC archives of JP's ? So that people (at least the active ones) can copy-paste their CC threads (at least the completed ones) over here.

The point of the CC Forums has always been a thing of checking
- core
- core development
- strategy
of other generals, and i guess others have done so too, anyway the threads are a source for various information (i.e. some people like you and Jan made notes and suggestions how a scenario could be improved) - however the new forums are rather empty yet.

[lvjtn]

Would it be possible to unlock the CC archives of JP's ?

theoretically: yes, it's possible
practically: only admins can unlock a forum (mods can only lock/unlock a thread), so you should ask Jeff, Whoopy or Adler. good luck!

and yes, i miss the detailed aars with screenshots and/or good stories, so i recommend to save at least your own threads from your browser

(btw. lots of screenshots are also dead, as too much file hosting sites go offline eventually )

[mythos]

I see

Alright - i actually don't have much to copy (only ever finished 3 CCs so far ), will do that soon.

[randowe]

I that light i would like to copy my playtest of REDrake's DEUTSCHE MARINEKORPS CAMPAIGN for REDPAC Efile to thew forum. I really liked the report and still like it with all the pictures and legthy texts and i would like to keep it. Do you think it is worth to copy or to much spam?
I swear, that will be the only play report i'd like to copy

[mythos]

Your AARs are very well written, thus i would say: copy all your playthreads that you like

[lvjtn]

yes, Clemens reading your aars is always very useful for players, so please, do it

[mythos]

c) manuals, tutorials and things like that... by several posters

imo it would be enough to add the og school in english to the aforementioned manuals /howtos on our site ( myself ) and let this thread to sink on jp

I have skimmed through the thread - it contains a ton of discussion about "good job" and "i would change/add/write myself" posts, however effectively it only contains the OG-School by rscasas and Guille.

Csaba, please add these links:
- Starting Open General, basic commands
- Basic game concepts
- Advanced game concepts
- Advanced game concepts - Part 2
- Advanced game concepts - Part 3
to the documentary page

With this, point 1c) is ready for strike.

e) pg2 essential readings

same as before. i can remove the ez codes easily if it helps

Yes please: remove ez codes and mail me the file. Until now i wasn't able (read: willing ) to check this thread.

I'm currently/still working on 1d), but i might take a look on it.

[lvjtn]

Csaba, please add these links:

but they already are there

http://www.open-general.com/doc-school.php

i mail you the cleaned html i got / made

recently i have zero interest in documentation

EDIT: so here you are the links of the forums what i saved and cleaned, if anybody wants to use them, enjoy if somebody wants to add faq entries, see the source of an existing faq entry for template or contact me. i'll upload any finished documentation, but i definitely won't create/convert anything for a while

a) faq
b) other forums

[mythos]

Csaba, please add these links:

but they already are there

http://www.open-general.com/doc-school.php

so here you are the links of the forums what i saved and cleaned, if anybody wants to use them, enjoy if somebody wants to add faq entries, see the source of an existing faq entry for template or contact me. i'll upload any finished documentation, but i definitely won't create/convert anything for a while

a) faq
b) other forums

Thanks

[mythos]

Are these 2 worth of copying ?

Openized Campaigns
http://www.panzercentral.com/forum/view ... 98#p658612

Game Tips
http://www.panzercentral.com/forum/view ... 93#p631305
This is actually linked in 1 of the original help topics, under "The Morale" in the OG Tactical Manual.

[lvjtn]

Are these 2 worth of copying ?

Openized Campaigns

hell no!!! see its last post

Game Tips

it's part of the game, so why should it copied anywhere? otoh, thanks for mentioning it, as the link should be updated too this forum

[mythos]

Game Tips

it's part of the game, so why should it copied anywhere? otoh, thanks for mentioning it, as the link should be updated too this forum

the only (probably weak) reason is, as said, that the OG Tactical Manual links to it.
I understand that Game Tips is just listing the Tips which are shown ingame.
A solution would be to remove the reference and the link from the OG Tactical Manual, but
a) only Luis can do it
b) i wanted to ask and to notify about the situation





Edit:
I totally forgot, if sending you FAQ entries, is there a specific template you prefer ?
Or is it sufficient to
- compound mail
--- topic title 1
------- text 1
--- topic title 2
------- text 2
etc ?

[lvjtn]

A solution would be to remove the reference and the link from the OG Tactical Manual

yep, thanks, i did it on the open-general.com, imo just send a pm to Luis to do the same on his site. these tips can be seen if players enables them, no need to duplicate them here

I totally forgot, if sending you FAQ entries, is there a specific template you prefer ?

yes, i forgot to explain it sufficiently

so each faq entry should be a separated html or txt file. if you are familiar with html, then you can see the source of any current faq entry (e.g. http://www.open-general.com/faq/faq00024.php ) to see the format. if not, just use simple txt

other format requests:
- DON'T use typewriter apostrophes, neither single nor double ones so instead of "this" write “this”, and instead of 'that' write ‘that’. the apostrophes have real function in php/html, and it's easier to avoid the mess
- if you add screenshots, use lossless png instead of jpg, and use the same filename than the faq entry has (e.g. the aforementioned faq00024.php has one screeenshot: faq00024a.png, if you add more, they can named to faq00XXXb.png, faq00XXXc.png, etc.)
- iirc the first free slot is faq00076, use this and the higher numbers for the new entries

[mythos]

Roger that

Thanks

[mythos]

d) panzer general 2 faq and important links

yes, it's about pg2, but there are several things which are still valids (like gaining exp, leader promotion), maybe the useful parts should be selected and saved as faq

Ready for strike.

New thread is here.

I am still sorting out a couple of posts which i will rewrite for the FAQ repository, and i lack a PG2 copy to doublecheck everything myself but otherwise, done.

[LuisGuzman]

A solution would be to remove the reference and the link from the OG Tactical Manual

yep, thanks, i did it on the open-general.com, imo just send a pm to Luis to do the same on his site. these tips can be seen if players enables them, no need to duplicate them here

It is fixed

[mythos]

[mythos]

Csaba, please check your mails



And, i totally forgot

2. design (map, icon, sound, efile, campaign, gui, etc. making)

a) campaign making for pg2 by pzm

Item a) is ready for strike.
New thread is here (work in progress at the moment, but the contents are already available).

[Profa]

Hello,

From what I can see it has been a long time since old forum is closed, and it is a long shot, but I was wondering if anyone has copy of old archived CC56's?There was epic Gixian's report, and mine too.
I have been planning to start again my favorite campaign which I played like a century ago, so any help could be appreciated.

[Parabellum]

Hello Profa and welcome back to the forum and Open General.
Unfortunately there is no good news regarding old AAR's. The new forum has already existed for three years, but nobody has uploaded old AAR's yet. The only exception is panzerdarek, who had saved his old AAR's from blissful PG times privately.

In the archive are three AAR's to read. Maybe this help is enough for a restart after such a long time.
viewforum.php?f=73

[Profa]

Hello Para,

Thank you for the info.

I play a bit differently, but it is ok.I was more hoping to compare my previous campaign with planned start.
And as mentioned Gixian's reports were really inspiring, so it was more like a motivation reason.